It’s only by the grace of God that no person has been seriously injured when a horse broke down. Ever have a horse go down with you, Tex, while working? Galloping? Imaging turning for home and your horse switching leads and BOOM you are on the ground and right in the path of 3-5 more horses who won’t see you in time to avoid running you over.
As bad as this is, it would be x1 million if a person got seriously hurt or killed.
Horsemen - do not argue with the state vet when he or she questions your horse’s soundness on race day. Do not break the rules.
We can’t mickey mouse around this stuff any more. It will only take one rider down to really really really put the industry at great risk.
I realize it was at Del Mar, but Victor Espinoza’s accident was pretty high-profile. Granted, the horse collapsed and died, but a breakdown comes in many forms…
That’s why the horsemen will have to do something with unanimity. I’m sure the smaller outfits are absolutely intimidated with the thought that if TSG will do that to a hall-of-famer, then sending them down the road would be about as casual as ordering lunch at a drive through. As I mentioned earlier, PJ Campo and his intimidating style in hustling entries was a common factor in 2019 Santa Anita and the similar debacle at Aqueduct in 2012. His removal was indeed good riddance.
One thing to realize is that a lot of these guys are at the top of their game and coming up with a curriculum that would actually be of benefit is not easy. These trainers have seen more in their careers than an average veterinarian, so it would probably take clinics by a Cornell or New Bolton level vet to actually teach them something they may not already know. They’re well beyond “here’s how to apply standing wraps.”
As we all know too darned well, just because experience is passed down for generations doesn’t necessarily mean that the underlying principals are correct. Think how medicine has changed in the last century. I’m still in shock at the Santa Anita vet and trainer who thought it was perfectly okay to run a horse with a hairline fracture.
I think if you were to get off of the internet and actually meet some of the people who, in your opinion, don’t know what they’re doing because they’re in racing, I think you might understand the level of knowledge and experience a lot of them possess. Also, just because some of their knowledge may be “handed down” as you put shouldn’t discount them. Again, what should the curriculum look like?
That’s very true. I was interested in racing for decades before I got involved but my practical horse experience was as a recreation and show rider. Ultimately I was in a barn that went to national shows although I didn’t. That trainer had one assistant, one fulltime groom, 1 or 2 working students and himself for as many as 25 horses at a time. Obviously he was relying on his clients like me to do things too. His care was very good but not top barn race track quality which I didn’t appreciate until years later.
Anyone who thinks people like Hollendorfer or any other Hall of Famer needs courses on basic horse husbandry doesn’t know what they don’t know. Also successful barns attract the best help and some of these unsung guys are really, really good.
Anyone here ever taken the trainer’s exam in either California or Kentucky? Or anywhere else for that matter. What’s it like?
I don’t see anything wrong with requiring continuing education for trainers. Part of the curriculum would be regulation changes; another could be newest advances in research and vet medicine, including horse psychology; yet another would be changes in the definition of racing soundness.
Dr. Bramlage in the video posted above made a categorical statement that a horse that is put on the vet list three times is highly likely to break down during a race. Do trainers know that? Bramlage also said that he would require genuine vet diagnoses of all horses that go on the vet list because, he said, that often doesn’t happen. The horse just gets turned out for a bit and then is brought back into training without anyone ever finding out what’s really wrong.
Principals of Physical Conditioning
Equine Anatomy and Physiology
Equine Nutrition
Common Equine Disease and Injury (I made that one up)
Of course, they’d either have to dumb the stuff down or make sure students had the prerequisite Bio, Chem, etc classes to understand the stuff.
Since we are at it, and each trainer is running a small business,
Human Resources
Accounting
Finance
Economics
At one point, I googled some of the top trainers, and most of the ones I googled have college degrees. So smart enough to make it through college, smart enough to self-educate wrt their chosen occupation. Of course, we don’t know who spends time online reading material relevant to training race horses and who does not.
The state vet doesn’t do a full workup, he or she just looks for unsoundness. It’s up to the trainer, owner and private vet to get the horse sound enough to run. Are you expecting the state to spring for lameness evals, xrays, etc?
Viney, I don’t think you understand what trainers do.
If you ever spend time on the backside of a track you will realize that each day is a course in continuing education. Every morning trainers, vets, jockeys, exercise riders, jockey agents, farriers, medical supply salesmen, etc. etc are in a constant state of motion between the barns and the track–and they are constantly discussing those new developments and advances you think trainers are so unaware of. It’s amazing how quickly new info get passed around.
As for learning about horse psychology, any good trainer could teach that course. :lol:
Fwiw, I’m am author. I’ve written 40 books or so. Do you think I should be required to take continuing education courses on how to write and changes in the publishing industry because I’m likely to be unaware of what’s happening in my chosen profession? Most people wouldn’t assume that I’m ignorant about what I do for a living. I see no reason to assume that trainers are ignorant about the important details of their lives either.
Bramlage was very insistent that the owners/trainers would be responsible for the actual vet workup which would be done by the horse’s regular vet. If the horse couldn’t be shown to have had such a workup, it would not be allowed to race for ninety days. At least that’s how I recall his position. You should watch the video.
And, Laurie B, a writer doesn’t have the lives of another creature in his/her hands. Given the amount of activity you describe, even though trainers, etc. may be presented with information, in the context of all the hustle, who is to say that it makes much of an impact on understanding. Sitting down and getting it in a structured presentation and a quiet environment is far more conducive to learning and understanding than getting it in the rushed context of daily problems.
Would you suggest that doctors who practice in a field shouldn’t have to have continuing education?
As to your statement that any trainer could teach courses in horse psychology, why, then do we bother to fund academic research on it?
Received knowledge is not always correct. Experience does not necessarily lead to understanding. Unsubstantiated treatments may be the vogue, wrong, but perpetuated. Think of the phlogiston theory in physics; think of humors in medicine; think of bleeding, cupping and leeching as medical cures. Unverified treatment fads have been known and may be dangerous in all medicine. Older vets may not be up to date or unwilling to accept changes, and medical salemen are pushing products to make money.
You tell me how many scientific papers on veterinary medicine you think the backside denizens read and digest.
I do not agree with your analogy that doctors and horse trainers are comparable professions. Since you have suggested this, I will point out one major difference between them: doctors only see their patients when they are unwell or have a health complaints. Trainers see their horses nearly 24/7. Their horses are dependent upon them for care and decision-making. It’s a totally different relationship.
If I had to come up with an analogy–which I’d really rather not, but here goes–I think that trainers are more comparable to parents in the amount of involvement they have with their charges. Would you like to mandate continuing education courses for parents too?
You tell me how many scientific papers on veterinary medicine you think the backside denizens read and digest.
Perhaps you would be surprised to know that most horse trainers (at least the ones I know) aren’t stupid. That aside, most trainers confer with their vets if not every day, 3-4 times a week. So unless you want to condemn the veterinary profession too, your question is a moot point.
Speaking of moot points, I have no idea why you’re bringing leeches as a medical cure into this conversation. Wouldn’t 99.9% of everyone agree that life has moved on since 200 years ago?
Frankly I think people fund academic research on horse psychology because they don’t know that the answers to most of their questions are readily available if they only knew who to ask–like half the COTH bb, for example. :lol:
Most of the “groundbreaking” material the researchers come up with seems astonishing to people who’ve never known a horse, never lived with one, or perhaps have never even seen one up close.
People who live with horses 24/7 just shrug and think: Yup, we knew that.
I remember the recent study (funded by someone) that concluded that horses gasp have different facial expressions. Really, was that news to anyone who owns a horse? :winkgrin:
while trainers may see their horses everyday, 24/7, trainers are not veterinarians. Nor do they know the depth of knowledge that veterinarians do unless they spent the same years at Vet schools. The same goes for any experienced horse owner who owns and cares for horses 24/7. They may know their horses like the back of their hand but they are not up to the task of the services and knowledge a veterinarian can provide.
The real difference between Doctors and Veterinarians is that doctor’s patients can verbally tell them when they are ill or hurt, what hurts or what specifically is bothering them, and then begin diagnostics and treatment from there. Veterinarians must start with an animal that presents itself a certain way and then begin an array of diagnostics to potentially see what’s wrong and try to diagnose from there.
Many horses do not present lameness with minor fractures that can be seen with in-depth diagnostics or during autopsies when they are found as potential cause. Therefore; most people would continue on day to day operations as if nothing was wrong. When addressing lameness, most people don’t go the full scale of diagnostics and radiographs and scans because of cost. This is an issue when there are physical issues only seen on more in depth technology that could contribute to fatal breakdowns.
then comes the issue of tendon and ligament injuries. Horses that are rested from that and come back to race. Those tendons are never as strong as they were, much like any fracture found in bone. This is why jumping horses with such injuries are rarely returned to the level they once were; the risk is to great. So yes, horses who return to the track with such injuries are ticking time bombs. Like it or not, they are.
and this is the problem with the modern world of internet and social media. Every bonafide horse owner, “trainer”, considers themselves a professional on everything concerning a horse. Go to vet school then consider yourself a professional on the makings of a horse, treating a horse, diagnosing a horse, etc.
Get your doctorate and then call yourself a know-it-all on the subject. as I noted in my post above, trainers and owners, despite many years in the profession, can only diagnose and treat so far, and most of their knowledge is handed down to them. Not always the “right” knowledge.
