Santa Anita- do you think somethings up?

[Palm_Beach]

@LaurieB

That’s true, but–this latest breakdown (and many before it) happened during racing. There are many tracks that card the same number of races and racing days as SA does. So your percentages don’t really apply–unless you are saying that all those horses working on the track in the mornings are making it less safe to race on in the afternoon. In that case, we are back to a problem with track maintenance.

The news is counting both morning and afternoon deaths. And to compare apples to apples, you need to be counting the same things. If the news is counting all deaths, both training and racing, then you need to count training heads and racing heads and compare that everywhere.

The number of races and number of racing days does not matter as much since the field sizes vary. There are so many factors that influence track safety including number of horses training daily, weather, number of horses racing, etc that it probably takes someone better at math and statistics than me to break this stuff down. But the news is simply counting dead horses and making a big deal over it, so trying to do damage control by saying, “But the weather” or “But the total number of races” isn’t working. I mean, no one has said that way more horses died from the neglect of one person than died all year in CA. Things need to be put in perspective.

“The owner of a Maryland farm is going to trial after dozens of horses were found dead and decaying as more than 100 others were neglected and starving on her property.”

https://wtop.com/maryland/2019/03/trial-to-start-over-dozens-of-dead-horses-at-delaware-farm/

[Laurierace]

@Palm Beach why did you put that irrelvent link at the end of your post?

[Palm_Beach]

@Laurierace

@Palm Beach why did you put that irrelvent link at the end of your post?

Do you think that dozens of horses from the neglect of one responsible person are not equivalent to a similar number of horses from a very large number of responsible people? And this one person can still own animals, but the press thinks an entire industry should be shut down when a disproportionate number of horses die? Perspective, but I guess you don’t see it.

[Where_sMyWhite]

PB, where is your hue and cry against the vast numbers of QH’s bred and where they end up?

[Laurierace]

Sorry, I don’t follow.

[Palm_Beach]

@Where'sMyWhite

PB, where is your hue and cry against the vast numbers of QH’s bred and where they end up?

Why don’t you start a thread about it?

[LaurieB]

Arthur Hancock is calling for answers and more transparency:

https://www.paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/hancock-if-not-the-drugs-then-what-is-causing-fatal-injuries/

[Where_sMyWhite]

Interesting read with some good questions asked.

However, at least one comment I don’t know that I agreed with/about. His comment that it rains in CA. Yes, it does but this last winter, far more rain than usual with the track getting sealed/unsealed more than usual.

What I do agree with is there needs to be some sort of study or more data collection and correlation when there is a fatality either racing or training and when the death occurs within 48 of the injury being sustained. Yes on meds, attending vet(s), trainer, circumstances of the fatality including more information than what I think is now collected about the track surface and overall maintenance prior to the fatality (sealed/unsealed, sloppy/fast/turf/dirt/synthethic/ etc).

What annoys me a bit is when TSG et al comes up with more pre-race exams, tests, etc (not that I think this is bad) but I’ve not heard them say anything about really doing the data collection to help understand what’s going on. Fatalities will never be 0 but the answer can’t just be adding more pre-race safety initiatives without understand why each fatality occurred.

[Palm_Beach]

@Where'sMyWhite

What I do agree with is there needs to be some sort of study or more data collection and correlation when there is a fatality either racing or training and when the death occurs within 48 of the injury being sustained. Yes on meds, attending vet(s), trainer, circumstances of the fatality including more information than what I think is now collected about the track surface and overall maintenance prior to the fatality (sealed/unsealed, sloppy/fast/turf/dirt/synthethic/ etc).

What annoys me a bit is when TSG et al comes up with more pre-race exams, tests, etc (not that I think this is bad) but I’ve not heard them say anything about really doing the data collection to help understand what’s going on. Fatalities will never be 0 but the answer can’t just be adding more pre-race safety initiatives without understand why each fatality occurred.

Isn’t the CHRB doing an investigation which caused the sealing of the necroscopy reports, and the LA County DA is doing one as well? They may even be working together. I can’t find anything about their recent findings, just articles about the pending investigation from several months ago. Anyway, there is a fantastic amount of information on the CHRB including summaries of necroscopy reports for the fiscal year. Not surprising, most TB fatalities are due to front limb failures. Have you looked through the reports? Is this not enough data collection for you?http://www.chrb.ca.gov/postmortem_reports.html

[Palm_Beach]

I think a lot of it will boil down to the trainers. They are responsible for conditioning an athlete that will perform at top capacity, and many of them have no education in any related science. The SA trainers are known for training hard and working horses hard.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@Palm Beach

Isn’t the CHRB doing an investigation which caused the sealing of the necroscopy reports, and the LA County DA is doing one as well? They may even be working together.

IIRC, all the articles I’ve seen have said that the DA has the necropsies and has not released them yet to CHRB as the criminal investigation is still in process.

[snaffle1987]

I will not be watching the breeders cup this year either. Don’t want to witness the catastrophe that is impending. Big stables, value of horses, big name horses; it’s all irrelevant. Anyone can say “it wont happen to me”, “the odds are in my favor for my horse to return to the barn safe”. Take your heads out of the sand pile.

[findeight]

@snaffle1987

I will not be watching the breeders cup this year either. Don’t want to witness the catastrophe that is impending. Big stables, value of horses, big name horses; it’s all irrelevant. Anyone can say “it wont happen to me”, “the odds are in my favor for my horse to return to the barn safe”. Take your heads out of the sand pile.

…

[skydy]

@snaffle1987

I will not be watching the breeders cup this year either. Don’t want to witness the catastrophe that is impending. Big stables, value of horses, big name horses; it’s all irrelevant. Anyone can say “it wont happen to me”, “the odds are in my favor for my horse to return to the barn safe”. Take your heads out of the sand pile.

Oh, I’ll be watching the Breeders Cup races, just not live. I always look forward to the Breeders Cup, there are so many great races in one weekend and I love to look into the breeding of the entrants.

Who are you quoting and telling how to behave? I don’t see a link to any of the statements you’ve quoted. Are you just replying to imaginary people, who are saying imaginary things, in your head?

[Where_sMyWhite]

I hear voices??? :lol:

[Where_sMyWhite]

It isn’t limited, as we all know, to Santa Anita.

Stella d’Oro was euthanized after suffering a catastrophic injury today in Keeneland’s 4th race.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/236203/keeneland-issues-statement-on-opening-day-fatality

In addition to the investigation conducted by the Kentucky Horse Racing Commission, which includes a forensic necropsy, Keeneland will conduct an independent review of the incident, the results of which will be published when completed.

[Laurierace]

While I do think there was and maybe still is something wonky with the track at SA, I think the bulk of the problem is the social media death watch that publicizes every bad step taken everywhere. There is work still to be done to make racing safer starting with uniform medication rules so trainers don’t track shop based upon what is allowed where for a particular horse but there will never, ever be zero deaths. They are just too big, too fast, too fragile and have too much heart to ever make it zero so we need to stop pretending that is an attainable goal.

[Vivace1]

@Where'sMyWhite

It isn’t limited, as we all know, to Santa Anita.

Stella d’Oro was euthanized after suffering a catastrophic injury today in Keeneland’s 4th race.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/236203/keeneland-issues-statement-on-opening-day-fatality

Damn it, I liked Stella. Hope she’s flying fast among the stars she was named for.

[Where_sMyWhite]

Stella d’Oro was a bit :eek:

Turf race, firm, 1 1/2 miles.

She was pulled up heading into the backstretch. She was squeezed at the start (according to the race chart) so wonder if something happened during the start.

[findeight]

Believe there were four ontrack fatalities at the Keeneland spring meet, still too many and it will never be zero. The way to deal with with them and reduce them is to investigate and be transparent. Perhaps even offer constructive suggestions for solutions. Like maybe BC should haven moved to DelMar. Kind of late now but least it is constructive.

Pronouncements that owners and trainers have their heads in a sand pile offer nothing constructive.

Worth noting that Keeneland has not had a drop of rain in 5 weeks. Perhaps they have the opposite problem of SA? Perhaps it’s unrelated to footing but thafs why we need to look more carefully into it.

Will be working day #1 of BC and morning of #2 but will watch the Classic, the Mile and that turf Classic. Think the distaff is a Day I, too bad,some of the best this year are the girls.