apparently hounds followed the fox into a property and the hunter master and some other members went to retrieve the hounds. police were called and now the hunt master is facing charges of trespassing.
this is a pretty serious offense he’s charged with. i can’t imagine what a hunt or any dog owner, could do under circumstances but go to get their dog.
do you think this is just a case of a grouchy landowner?
You mean this article? If so, it states that the hunt and the land owner have had problems before and, according to the land owner, this isn’t an isolated incident. Probably would have been better for someone to dismount and retrieve the hounds, not follow them while mounted, especially when the land owner has stated she doesn’t want you there. I know I’d be upset if I found out people were riding through my property if I had no trespassing signs up. (She reports that she had 300+ signs up.) I understand dogs getting loose, hounds following a trail, etc. The hunt obviously wants to retrieve the hounds but there are better ways to handle retrieving them than riding on someone’s property when she (supposedly) has made it clear you aren’t welcome. Then again, the article could be incorrect about many points which could change the whole story.
no, that’s not the article i saw.
the one i saw was much shorter, i think in the horse news. didn’t contain all this detail.
There is indeed a history between this landowner, and the hunt. Including, allegedly, certified letters being sent previously, warning of the request not to hunt on this private property.
Landowner has a reputation in the community for not wanting tresspassers, of any sort, mounted, unmounted, on wheeled vehicles.
So therefore, one must take into consideration the risk of coming up against the landowner by hunting near property that is expressly posted, and that prior written communication has been provided. If “everyone knows” how strongly this landowner feels about tresspassers, then one might have wanted to have called off the hounds well before the run got to that neck of the woods.
This hunt has whips that carry pistols that shoot blanks, and are not shy of popping one off on private property, with livestock nearby. One wonders what kind of mayhem would have ensued with a few gunshots to accompany the horn, the staff, and whatever other means were used to try to recall the wayward hounds.
All very unpleasant for the neighborhood, and for the hunt, which inherited this territory several years ago, when Brandywine dissolved.
why do the whips carry pistols w/ blanks?
for noise effects???
I’m guessing here…but probably because sometimes the hounds are so fixated on whatever…that the horn, the pop of a whip, or a shouting staff member aren’t enough to get their attention.
I am guessing that the pistols fire ratshot. 
Sorry, but it doesn’t take 20 riders to retrieve 20 couple of hounds.
Sounds like some bad attitudes with the hunt staff. It is a point of property rights and the ability to enjoy your private property without the hassle of trespassers.
The best way to lose hunting land access is to treat the landowners like serfs lucky to be allowed to have a hunt ride on their property.
This doesn’t sound like a “hound rescue” as much as a “screw you, we’re better than you are and don’t much care what you want.”
Not a great way to make friends for foxhunting.
After reading the comments that accompanied the article… I have to say that the Radnor MFH has done a fabulous job of helping the image of Foxhunting and horse people in general. I think they will need to be working on some major PR repair in that area. Incidents like this will only help speed the US in the direction of the UK ban.
People wonder why I have such a negative attitude about fox hunters. Radnor is the most well known hunt from where I grew up as well as where I am now.
Uppity snobs.
The story certainly has a number of lessons in it. One of which is to do with not compounding mistakes.
It’s provided me an opportunity to air a story. (isn’t that what BB are for?)
A relative moved smack in the middle of a very old mid-atlantic hunt. They have only 2+ acres of woods, surrounded mostly by larger farms, but there are ‘neighborhoods’ just up the road, so it’s not just miles of huntable country. This relative happens to have had horses for most of forever, has hunted, shown,driven, etc., but did not have a horse when they moved, so had no particular reason to become immediately aquainted with the horsey set. Their first introduction was when the entire pack arrived in the yard and garden, and deck, and patio… no staff to be seen (no fox in evidence either, but I suppose they were running something). A lone member of the field had managed to get down some path and showed up, at least looking like she was with the hounds but had nothing to do but wait for staff. Now I’m sure this relative was a bit peeved, but the staff, when they finally did show up, did not apologize at all, told them to just stay away from the hounds, and that if they knew anything about hunting (which is a tradition in this area blah, blah, blah), they’d understand that, these things happen, and they couldn’t possibly be blamed for the chaos in the yard. ??? The staff just assumed that these were just some city folk they could stomp all over with a nose in the air, which is just stupid, even when it’s true.
The compounding mistakes part came when someone showed up 2 weeks later, to deliver a ‘gift’ (of apology? --not in evidence, and I was there for this part), of some kind of leftover swag from their hunt ball 2 years past. ???
The relative has a horse again, but you can bet they won’t be planning on attending any local meet.
Define “leftover swag from a hunt ball 2 yrs ago”…just wondering. And don’t assume the hunt member “assumed” anything. How can we possible know what they were thinking or said or did? The story is colored by the teller. I’m glad they brought a gift and yes it coulda been sooner after the transgression. On the spot apologies are always best but not all of us are graceful in handling these kinds of situations. Ditto for the MFH or Radnor or anyone caught trespassing. If we trespass, we are accountable…and being nice does wonders. Haven’t all of us talked to a landowner about similar issues at some point while horseback riding? Hounds just makes it more complicated.
Landowner relations is mega important. As one myself, I will forgive a nice person and tell a rude, assumptive one to take a hike! Been there, done that! It’s all in the delivery.
A hunt I was in once, got reported for collective transgressions by a landowner/member and our punishment was to be summoned to a mandatory meeting and given a talking to by a collection of mfh’s from local hunts known to have good landowner relations programs. It was excellent, funny, smart and full of common sense on human relations. Here’s some of thier tips:
Anyone care to add? I’m just getting started!! 
WG, excellent list.
I’ll add that, just as in teaching manners to children, it is important to practice these all the time to make them your habit, so when you are flustered, hot and sweaty, chasing down errant hounds, you will remember them. Most stories about hunts getting in hot water aren’t on the day of a perfect outing, they are when something has gone wrong --the most important time to put on your best face.
You are right, my story is colored, and two steps removed from the initial event. But if the “if you knew anything about hunting” comment was reported accurately, that’s where I assumed an assumption was made ;). I thought it was odd to deliver a gift relating so directly to the hunt as to be strange for anyone not interested in hunting, but in hind sight, I’m sure the relative in question gave them an earful, including her past participation in the sport, so maybe they thought it would win her over. --oh, and WG, it wasn’t in VA
Yep
Yes, the apology gift type can be tricky for some landowners. I know one hunt that sends over a bottle of wine/booze. Some send horse oriented items. Some flowers. I think it’s nice if it’s individualized but that’s always not possible especially if you don’t know them or they’re new. It’s the thought that counts.
Personally…I’d prefer food…:winkgrin: but honestly, the nicest one I ever got was a wonderful, apologetic phone call from a MFH. Sooooo nice.
And don’t we all agree these recommendations are universal!
Hunt on!! 
It’s this sort of arrogance that gives hunting a bad name and rallies public opinion to banning it.
Shameful to go riding where you’re clearly not permitted and not wanted and pathetic to “pretend” you’re only trying to get your little doggies back!
What a load of baloney!!!
I’m probably one of the most pro-hunting folks there is but this sort of behaviour is bad, bad, bad!
They need to get off their high horse and go make amends PRONTO! They need to grovel and make genuine apology for messing up. They also need to make good any damage caused and compensate the owner and ensure they are more careful in future to keep away and if they can’t manage that, then they need to find a more appropriate area to indulge in their sport.
Do any of y’all really think that the entire story is in that little article?
Because there was another article a while back that gave some details about the landowner that painted a bit of a different picture.
Property rights must always be respected. No doubt about it. I’ve had problems with trespassers in the past and I was pretty steamed. The damage they did was time consuming and expensive to repair. (ATV riders)
But…there are parts of this story that just aren’t adding up. Especially the part about the field trespassing. From what I read there was no evidence of that.
Anyway, I’m not confident the media is presenting the facts and giving the reader a complete story.
And like all things that involve hunting, the AR nuts and trolls come out from their bridges and caves to poke and prod. And the story always grows in the telling.
If the hunt is guilty of not intentionally disregarding property rights - they’ll get no sympathy from me. But I think there is more to the story. Maybe it will all come out at trial.
Here’s the article JSwan refers to>>>>
http://www.dailylocal.com/articles/2008/11/30/news/srv0000004159343.txt
It gives a bit more information, but is still a bit sketchy. If you go on and read some of the comments, the land owner and her “friend” get some pretty insightful press from their neighbors…
And in the not too distant future, this property will also be covered in McMansions.
I can recall one incident where the hounds got into some cover behind a very manicured lawn. we were positioned in such a way that they were covered from all sides including a whipper-in up on the road which allowed her to follow quickly. It was new territory on the edge of a suburban neighborhood.
The huntsman demanded the whipper-in come right down the long driveway and onto the lawn in order to push the hounds to her. However, the staff person questioned how best to do it as she didn’t want to destroy the lawn and it was clear the hounds were in a cover. She was “reinstructed” and then informed that retrieving hounds allowed us to tresspass. I’m not sure that is true . Since any damage would have been reported to me, I felt responsible and went back to check on damages and to apologize if needed.
It’s likely the attitude of the huntsman in this Va case, that it’s ok -regardless. Such disregard in incidences where landowners, and the public perceive a “holier than thou” attitude only fuels fire. This is especially true when dealing with landowners terrified of lawsuits and damage to property or just want their privacy. It will be interesting how this pans out and might be a test case for similar incidences where landowners have just had it.
Without land, there’s no hunting. You piss off landowners- and it doesn’t matter who is right on the merits- you will have no land.
Promlightshine, the many places where I’ve hunted dating back to 1971, it was NEVER okay to get on ANYONE’s lawn for ANY reason. Even if the landowner says it’s fine. Why? Well, it’s just rude and suggests disregard for property.
In the example you provide, that landowner should have been contacted personally by a master, before the start of the season (and indeed before the start of EVERY season) for an introduction, a small gift, and a friendly chat about the prospects of crossing that landowner’s property, along with any caveats including where NOT to go. Before any meet that MIGHT go near that land, another face to face visit, or at the very least a phone call, saying the hunt will be in the neighborhood, is there anything we need to know about what to avoid on your land.
I fear that since most foxhunters are urbanites any more, the knowledge of even how to create and maintain landowner relations is lost by many Masters. I have the impression that many now leave that to the professional huntsman- better than nothing, but a burden on the huntsman and still smacks of uppity Masters and members. Long term, lack of Masters involvement with landowners can only bode ill for the sport.
With the first hunt where I earned my colors, every member had standing orders to stop and help ANY landowner at ANY time of the year, even in the middle of a hunting day. If nothing else, a friendly hello. A couple of us did stop once and one held horses while the other helped hitch bushhog to tractor. A really really small price to pay for the privilege of crossing his land.
IMFHA Code of conduct. (Trespassing is NOT getting the job done)
This Code of Conduct is intended as a guide to both newcomers and seasoned followers of hounds. Its purpose is to assist those who participate in foxhunting to fully appreciate the important responsibilities and roles of the key team members who organise hunting.
The objective of this code of practice is to help followers of the hunt, whether that be on foot, mounted or in the car, to understand and enjoy a day with hounds. Foxhunting is a highly regulated and organised sport that depends entirely upon the goodwill of the farmers over whose land we hunt.
There are 39 packs of hounds registered with the Irish Masters of Foxhounds Association (IMFHA). Each registered pack of foxhounds has its own defined territory or hunt country and the hunt kennels are usually situated in the heart of that country.
The minimum number of foxhounds needed to maintain a registered pack is 10 couple (twenty-one hounds) although most hunts maintain in excess of thirty couple. Hounds are cared for by the Hunt Staff comprising the huntsman and his assistant, the “whipper-in”. Some hunts may also have a kennelman and a hunt groom to look after the hunt horses.
Organised foxhunting plays an important part in rural life not only as a recreation but it also plays a critical role in habitat management and preservation. Through foxhunting many small bogs, coverts and hedgerows, which provide habitats for foxes, small mammals, birds and insects, are protected and preserved. This voluntary conservation role goes largely unrecognised as most of the coverts, bogs and hedgerows that are preserved belong to farmers and supporters of the hunt.
Foxhunting also contributes enormously to the local economy.> Amongst the many trades and professions that earn some of their income through hunting are the farmers and feed merchants who sell hay, straw, haylage and oats to local horse owners, equestrian centres who provide hirelings, livery or who sell horses, farriers, saddlers, vets, hoteliers and publicans. To some degree each of these trades depend upon the activities of the Hunt Club as part of their income.
Foxhunting was never more popular or better supported than it is today and the main concern of most Hunt Clubs is maintaining the balance between the demand to go hunting and the need to restrict followers to a reasonable number.
Foxhunting takes place in public, it is observed by the public and it must be held publicly accountable for its actions. Familiarity with this Code of Hunting Practice will ensure that those who participate in hunting understand their obligation to maintain the highest standards of sportsmanship and good behavior at all times.
Foxhunting as a sport is the hunting of the fox in its wild and natural state with a pack of Registered Foxhounds. No pack of foxhounds either Registered or Associated with the IMFHA nor any Master(s), Hunt Representative or Hunt Chairman, who is a member of, or affiliated to the IMFHA, shall be allowed or shall allow his/her employees, agents or Hunt Staff to hunt a fox in any way that is inconsistent with this precept.
Hunts and Masters affiliated to the IMFHA agree to be bound by the Constitution, Bye-Laws, Regulations, Code of Hunting Practices, Guidelines and Directives issued by the Committee of the IMFHA.
The object of foxhunting as it is practiced in Ireland places the emphasis on the art of venery and not the death of a fox. Those opposed to foxhunting would have you believe that every hunt ends in the death of a fox and this is simply not true. However, it is inevitable that on occasion hounds will catch their fox and, when this happens, death is instantaneous. In foxhunting either the fox is killed or he gets clean away.
The Role of Masters / Joint-Masters
In the case of Masters and Joint-Masters, their responsibility extends to the conduct of Hunt Staff, the management of the Hunt Kennels and the care of hounds. It is the Masters’ obligation to ensure that hounds are kenneled in safe, clean, adequate kennels and that hounds are well fed, regularly exercised and properly handled in the hunting field. Masters of Foxhounds or their appointed agents are solely responsible for conducting the day’s hunting and are bound by the strict rules and instructions of the Irish Masters of Foxhounds Association. Their authority and responsibility is absolute and their instructions must always be cheerfully obeyed. The field should remember that the hunt staff is accountable only to the Master on the day or his appointee. At no time should a member of the Field instruct or interfere with the job of either a Professional or Honorary member of the Hunt Staff in the hunting field, in kennels or in the hunt country. Prior to appointment, it should be made clear to a new member of the hunt staff who is employing him/her and to whom he/she reports and takes direction. Prior to each hunting day the farmers or landowners within the area to be hunted will be notified. Such canvassing ensures the minimum of disruption to farm livestock or the normal activities on a farm. Normally one of the Masters or a member of the Hunt Staff or an Area Manager does such canvassing. It is the responsibility of the Master to ensure that appropriate procedures are in place to deal with any last minutes changes of a hunt meet that may arise due to a local funeral, severe weather or some other unforeseen circumstances. The Master or Joint-Masters should ensure that there is adequate means of communications in place between the field and the Hunt repair crew on a hunting day. Should the Master or Joint-Masters need to leave the hunting field early, then they must ensure that there is a clear delegation of authority.
The Duties of the Field
Because the hunt meets by arrangement and is recognisable and therefore accountable, mounted followers enjoy access to large areas of countryside denied to other people. When following hounds mounted, you must:
(a) Conform to local standards of behaviour. Make yourself familiar with whatever local conventions or traditions need to be observed by hunt followers. For example some hunts do not allow lorrys to park at the meet and horses are asked to unbox some distance away. Other hunts require that you park on one side of the road only.
(b) Have a brush and shovel in your horsebox to tidy up any dung or straw when unboxing.
© Ensure that your personal turnout is neat, clean and safe and that your tack and horse are clean and presentable.
(d) Have your subscription paid before you go hunting. “Cap” must also be paid on each hunting day. Have the correct “cap” ready for the Hunt Secretary.
(e) Ensure that you are not causing an obstruction to roads, gateways or public amenity areas. When parking your horsebox, ensure that you have permission to park there. Be sensitive to the fact that not everyone enjoys the presence of a hunt nor the evidence it may leave behind.
(f) It is important to be punctual at the meet. If you are late, under no circumstances try and follow hounds across country and join the hunt on the road at the next available opportunity.
(g) Make a sincere attempt not to cause damage to farm boundaries or hunt fences. If you break a fence or cause or notice damage of any kind, report it immediately to the Master on the day or the Hunt repair crew.
(h) Leave gates the way you find them. If in doubt close any and all gates behind you. If there is any doubt contact the farmer or farm manager to find out the correct disposition.
(i) Go slowly through or around livestock to prevent disturbing them. Never cross a planted field. Go around the headland.
(j) Above all, obey the Master and the Field Master.
(k) Keep QUIET when hounds are drawing a covert or hunting. Learn to watch and listen so that you can understand what is going on.
(l) Exercise due care and courtesy to all road users. When on the road keep to the left and do not hold up traffic.
(m) Always turn your horse’s head towards hounds and in this way your horse is less likely to kick one!
The Duties of Car Followers
Car followers are welcome but they must also obey the rules.
a) Do not interrupt the flow of traffic. Courtesy must be shown to every road user and pedestrian.
b) Do not obstruct gateways or driveways or enter into private residences, farmland or open country unless you are sure that proper permission has been obtained.
c) Be careful not to obstruct a farm gateway where the hounds or field might emerge onto a road.
d) Avoid turning at the driveway into a private residence.
e) Keep together as much as possible and try to avoid heading the fox or getting between hounds and their line.
f) Exercise due care and courtesy to all other road users. Do not double park or hold up traffic.
g) If hounds or horses are nearby, stop in a safe, legal place and SWITCH OFF your engine, exhaust fumes mask scent and irritate hounds’ noses.
h) Please do all you can to help the hunt. When you leave your vehicle, follow the code for foot followers.
The Duties of Foot Followers
Foot followers can be very helpful to the hunt both during a day’s hunting and at other times. Please remember:
a) If you leave the road, you become a guest on the farmer’s land and you should behave accordingly.
b) Do not get into such a position as to head the fox as to do so is to spoil your own and everyone else’s sport.
c) Be as quiet as possible.
d) If you see the fox, let it get well past you before signaling the huntsman with a holloa, holding up your cap or a white handkerchief.
e) Leave gates the way you found them. Be ready to open or close gates for the Hunt Staff and Masters. Report any damage or loose stock you see to the Master or Hunt repair crew.
f) Above all ENJOY YOUR HUNTING! Some General Comments Accidental trespass cannot always be avoided but the wishes for all landowners, no matter how small, must be respected. Every effort must be made to prevent hounds and followers from hunting a fox into a “built-up” area or straying onto places where they are not welcome. Animal rights activists can be extremely irritating and may even break the law. Hunt followers must resist the temptation to retaliate in kind no matter what the provocation.
Many people use the countryside, some of which have no interest in hunting. We must make every effort not to offend these people in any way. Common courtesy, in the form of a simple ‘please’, ‘thank you,’ or ‘smile’ costs nothing. Politeness and a pleasant manner will go far to ensure the future of foxhunting. Finally but most importantly, please remember at all times that foxhunting depends upon the goodwill and generosity of farmers and landowners. To be invited onto their land is a great privilege and we must never do anything to abuse this great privilege.
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