As I said, I’m working with “off the shelf” saddles or maybe something that fits the horse but is not ideal for me. For instance, I can unequivocally tell you that, while my arse might be able to fit into most 17" seats, if there is a big, long (especially external) thigh block/knee roll, FORGET IT! Most of us don’t have the luxury of custom/custom for both horse and rider. I have young horses, sales horses, rehab horses and they all change so you work with what you have. Also, the couple of times I have splurged with my time & $$ to go truly custom, it really was no better than me jimmying something together, and once it was truly AWFUL. I have yet to meet a fitter that really grasps the concept, most of them out there are just peddlers of saddles. I’m sure you’re the exception, or at least I’d like to think there’s someone out there that has a clue. 
Yes, I agree with much of your points.
Having ridden in many dressage saddles for 30 + years, I am a 17.5" seat, as measured by multiple fitters. And as sat in multiple saddles. 18" doesn’t work for my horse, as explained by multiple saddle fitters. Including independent saddle fitters, one of whom fit my previous saddle multiple times.
Over time, you get to understand what works/doesn’t work for a particular horse’s build. You ride the horse and can determine what the horse goes best in. And of course it depends on the level you’re working the horse and expect to be working the horse in the future.
I’ve demoed brand name saddles in the past who I paid to evaluate my synthetic Isabell and they said “your saddle fits pretty well”. Don’t discount the advice from a good fitter.
I’m Glad someone got around to mentioning the horse’s build, not just back length.
I’m sure you’re the exception, or at least I’d like to think there’s someone out there that has a clue.
Thanks Buster, for giving me the benefit of the doubt! I sure do try. In saddle fitting school, rider fit barely gets a mention. Luckily I’m nerdy and sciencey, with a strong background in both anatomy and physics so I get the interplay of angles and forces better than most, I think.
My nerdiness and curiosity on this very topic is about to lead me to Sweden to learn more. It’s a topic on which there is not enough information so we are all muddling along the best we can, honestly. What irks me is the saddle companies that claim it’s as simple as measuring one’s thigh, or that “all women need” the same particular thing. I hope I come back from my trip with more practicable, useful information. Though I’ve already been told it requires hands-on between fitter and rider so you may have to come visit me in Ohio if you want to get the whole story!
My personal experience aligns with this! We don’t have independent fitters here, so I’ve been lucky to have good fitters for a brand. It tends to take me 12 saddles to decide which one works for me, and usually 10 of those 12 are comfortable for my horses. They’ve all been easy fits… me, not so much! But fitters have understood I need a super narrow twist, high rise in front, flat spot in the seat, and open enough back of the seat that it doesn’t inhibit my movement. Balance and flap shape on top of that define whether or not I can comfortably ride in the saddle, and each new saddle for a horse has taken a while to get used to the right feeling. I was riding in a 0ainfully hard nothing of a 1970s saddle before getting my current saddle on my girl, because nothing in our barn which was more modern both fit her and let me move with her.
My favorite saddle is a hard saddle with a spring tree from 1991 but alas it is too narrow in the gullet for my current horse.
I have also had bad experiences with Schleese- including a very crooked saddle that was “specially fitted to my mare” that she HATED! One rep came with her BF and let’s just say that her focus wasn’t on me during my test rides. The saddles are made in India now, and just tweaked here in Canada. I know the fellow who supervises the factories there.
I have a Sommer Diplomat for my short backed, big shouldered Arab cross now. We are both very comfortable with it. I just wish I had at least some of the money I gave Schleese back- I could buy another Sommer!
Coming to the conversation late and to wholeheartedly agree! I bought and returned one saddle (full refund) from a rep who said it fit. My horse was sore on day 2 and said absolutely not. She is a true princess and the pea which I love. It turns out the gullet head was too narrow. A French brand that is one size fits all, and not cheap either.
A friend just went to a Schleese fitting. She had an old used one that was a bit heavy. She left with a used one the fitter had in stock. She paid $7,000. IMO she got robbed. She should have gotten a new for that price or the used one should have been way less. Mind you she is a trail rider. Yes she rides a lot from April/May to early December. She pretty much doesn’t ride at all during the winter. These are not super difficult trails. Yes there are terrain changes and they are not super manicured trails but this is not the outback either. She has only tried the Schleese saddles in the last few years.
I think there is a lot out there that would have been lighter than what she had and fit her and the horse for a lot less money. Not my circus not my monkey
I’m going to assume that someone who drops $7 K on a dressage saddle for trail riding can afford the splurge. Maybe the deep seat and knee rolls give her security. It can be interesting going downhill in an English saddle. Even a heavy Schleese weighs less than a Western saddle too.
Did you ever find a saddle or get a proper fitting?
I am using a fitter( comes in Jan 2023) to just measure my young horse so I can use that to find a saddle that will ( hopefully) be a good fit.
I just talked to her and while she mainly does english fitting she is going to get info on how she needs to measure and what western saddle makers need etc… So I get what I am paying for ( her words).
Her fee is less than what you paid in June. She is about an hour from me and I am in Mid-MO. If you are interested I will DM you her contact info.
No, have not found a saddle yet. Please do message me your person’s contact info, and Thanks 
It is a stretch for her. Her husband isn’t that happy about it. She also didn’t plan on spending anything close to that when she went to the fitting. There are a lot of used dressage saddles that give the same security of the deep seats and knee rolls that are not $7,000. Heck even if they truly gave her a used price on the one she got I would understand. I think that $7,000 for a used Schleese when they are about $8K used is more than the normal market price on these things. There are plenty of them used for closer to $2K or even less. Pelham Saddlery has 5 or 6.
I know that going downhill in an English saddle can be interesting. I ride in an old Beval Devon 2000. It is new enough to have padded flaps but still no knee rolls or blocks of any kind. Yes, I paperchase and trail ride in it. I plan on foxhunting in it. However I am a younger rider than she is and more confident. Everyone has their own comfort level and I am good with that. In my area it is kinda rare to see Western riders unless they are on gaited horses. We are heavily an English area. She would not be open to Western anyway and not a synthetic saddle.
There comes a point sometimes that it is easier to just spend the money rather than spend time trying to find the same feel in something less expensive. I think I am a little jaded about brand reps versus an independent fitter. Therefore I don’t necessarily fully trust her advise.
Oh I agree that’s a very high price for a used saddle. I stay clear of the local saddle reps. I’m capable of sourcing a good enough saddle and getting an independent saddle fitter to reflock.
My trail saddle is 2001 Passier Optimum with modest knee rolls. I thought I’d need a Western saddle for back country but it turns out anything I am willing to take horse down, I can stay in the saddle ok.
Did someone say banks? Hills???
Back “in the day”… Nelson Pessoa and Grand Geste
Courtesy of Showjumping Hall of Fame
$7K I think your friend drank the Kool-aid. She very much could have gotten a new saddle custom to her horse for that price. If true, she needs to contest this with her fitter. And she needs to be firm.
I’m sorry this happened to your friend. It sounds like the fitter played on her insecurities as a rider to convince her to spend above her budget. Schleese marketing has always been quite aggressive and I can see where someone might buy a saddle because it makes her feel safer. I think there are a lot of used Schleese saddles on the market for far less than $7K. I’ve owned two and paid less than $1K for each of them (jump saddles). If she’s feeling burned, she should check and see if there are similar used saddles (same model and size) to see what they are selling for and then go back to the fitter/distributor and see if they will make her right.
Sad update after seven months:
Cantering happily along yesterday, when I heard/felt two clunks under the pommel. My horse moved as if he’d been goosed, and I noticed that the pommel had dropped more than an inch toward my TB’s withers. Untacked and turned the saddle upside down. The gullet has lost all its integrity.
This saddle had been fine. It had been adjusted well enough for my middle-aged horse to use his back, and I hadn’t worried that it had some miles on it.
When I spoke with the fitter/saleswoman last night, she said the gullet plate had probably broken and would neither hazard a guess as to what a repair would cost nor agree to a loaner or replacement. She also said something to the effect of: You knew that saddle had a ton of miles on it.
Age notwithstanding, seven months is not long enough for a saddle (or any item more than $50) to last without a debilitating breakdown.
I’m super bummed. It’s back to bareback for me until the dealer/fitters can make this remotely right.
Was this the used Schleese? This is a risk with saddles that can be adjusted because the gullet plate does not last forever with multiple adjustments.
Mine broke on my older Schleese at a horse show… now my fitter had warned me and prepared me but until it happened… but I bought my saddle new and when the lifetime warranty was in effect so I only had to pay shipping to Canada (not back to me). This was also a known issue with the Hennig tree mine was built on… of course not known to me back when I bought it lol.
Sorry this happened to you! Maybe find out from other saddle shops that do repairs a cost to see if it’s worth it?
Yes, it is a well-used Schleese. Though it had cosmetic signs of use, it felt better to me, and I think to my horse, than the other three the dealer/fitter offered. No one warned me that the gullet plate might fail. In particular, not within seven months of purchase. :-/
The fitter said yesterday she would price a repair and get back to me. We’ll see.
