Help a young horse buyer out: How do I tell if the unstarted baby I see will ultimately be the horse that takes lots of leg or a little?
I know lots of that obedience is a product of training. But I’m thinking of a good pro friend of mine who had a horse she bought as an unbroken one who remained shockingly behind the leg.
How much of that is inherent, and how can I see it before the horse is test-driveable?
Well, I’ll start.
I had two - half siblings. Mother was sport horse bred TB, gelding was by Irish/TB and mare was by Holsteiner.
Mare was born polite, gentle, responsive, willing, sensitive.
Gelding was thicker in the head, duller, not so quick to take a command like back up or move over.
Mare has equal amounts of whoa and go.
Gelding is tougher, lazier, jumps very willingly, perfect trail horse, good ride, but more push required.
Both are very good, nice horses - just different.
Perhaps check the breeding for a start.
You might able to figure out the horses on the extreme ends of the scale, but for the average-type a-bit-hot/a-bit-dull horses I don’t think you can tell when they’re young.
I’ve had pretty flamboyant young horses end up being dull and I’ve had pretty unperturbable horses wind up with an engine.
If I had been told to guess about my 4yo when he walked off the plane/trailer, I would have guessed that he would be a bit dull because despite never having been off of his home farm as a youngster, he was so chill about the import process and took all the new strange things in stride without acting terribly reactive to anything. But under saddle he’s got a big engine and wants to go. With that being said, I think once he’s been under saddle a bit longer he’ll be one of those that sits right in the middle - don’t have to push him to go, don’t have to whoa him to slow. And as I worked with him over the first few months I think I could get to that if I were guessing. Though he’s not spooky or overly reactive at all, he’s also not dull to work with on the ground. But that’s figuring out what a temperament will be AT the age that you ride them, which is a different story.
I got my (now 6-year-old) mare as a coming 2yo and I was positive that she would be a fiery one. I started lunging her lightly as a late 2yo and she was wickedly fast with her hind end and put on some bucking displays that left me a bit worried about the breaking process. She’s still reflexively fast (she SNAPS her legs up over jumps) but she’s a push ride all the way. She has also never bucked or done anything naughty under saddle, and I was POSITIVE she would be a wicked one.
I had another horse I bought as a yearling who I thought would sit in the middle. He was spooky and reactive as a young horse, and wasn’t particularly hard to make move. But he was shockingly dull from the moment I started working with him. And I’m pretty good about motivating dull horses, but even with me riding him every day from the beginning, he still required a lot of work every day to keep moving appropriately forward. Now, after he got through his first couple of years under saddle the spooky reactive side of him showed back up and I ultimately had to sell him as a hunter because hunter fences/rings weren’t spooky to him while jumper fences were. But nothing in his early years indicated that he would be so dull.
Perhaps some are a bit obvious as you work with them by how hard you have to work to get them to move. And I’ve had a few where their performance on a lunge line was quite indicative of how they wound up going under saddle.
But I guess I view it the same way I view free jumping. The work you do on the ground MIGHT be indicative of how they’ll work under saddle…and it might not.
I agree that starting with the bloodlines is a good place, but that’s not always a match either. I can say that my breeders focus on breeding a “trainable” mind, and WOW have my recent young horses been easy to work with. But that factor has little relation to the amount of go the individual horse has. I guess it does mean that none have been on the extreme end of the scale, but it’s a fine line between “a bit quick” and “a bit slow.”
YMMV, of course. Especially for those that do a lot of ground work before breaking a horse. I don’t do a lot of ground work with mine beyond a few sessions early on and general farrier/vet sessions.
Oh and I have a theory (that I’m sure a lot of people can bust into a million pieces). I think that truly intelligent horses generally (not always!) end up tilting more toward the dull side. And that’s because I think really smart horses understand that they don’t need to be reactive or, more importantly, over-reactive to stimuli.
But that’s a whole 'nother ball of wax. Because some horses are “clever,” some are “smart,” etc. And I don’t think I can consistently differentiate between the different types of intelligence at an early age.
So that was a really long, rambling way to say, “I’m not sure.” 
There is a lot more to it - training, understanding the individual, addressing his individual quirks and accommodating him without going over the top with nagging or firmness - some take much longer, so need the time…Yeah - try to spend time with each individual.
I have found that it is impossible to tell what a young horse will be like under saddle.
While much does depend on how the horse is started, how a horse will react to work just can’t be known before you get on. I’ve seen laid back horses on the ground and lunge that are super spicy when under saddle…and vice versa.
Sure, you can stack the odds in your favor with bloodlines, but it is all a crap shoot.
Sorry.
When looking at Hunter yearlings +, I never want one that gets quick in or after the jump chute. Bonus points if they pause and study the oxer before jumping and if they trot after jumping out of the chute.
As others have said I don’t think you can ever know for sure until you actually have them going undersaddle however I have pretty consistently been able to guess what my youngsters will be like undersaddle by looking at a few characteristics:
Good luck. When my homebred was a baby she was lazy. When she was 2 I think I put a surcingle on her the first time to see how she handled the pressure. Turned her loose in the outdoor and free lunged. She didn’t care at all. Later on, we brought her into the indoor and put a western saddle on her for the first time. Cinched it up and turned her out on the long line (did all this in one sitting because she just could absolutely care less). No buck, didn’t care.
I was like OMG how am I going to get this horse to move forward without a whip and spurs? I was used to riding thoroughbreds and can’t stand a kick ride.
Fast forward to under saddle. Very forward and a bit sensitive. Complete 180. I think bloodlines were the best tell–she was true to her breeding.
She was never dull in-hand though. I showed her as a yearling (unlike her young neighbor, who ended up being a dead-head under saddle, she laid down and slept like a rock in her new stall overnight–not a worrier). Trotted right off, very responsive once she got what we were doing.
She has always been kind of a diva though. Look at me, I’m a big deal kind of attitude.
Bloodlines. No real way to reliably guess temperament under saddle based on behavior as a young horse.
[QUOTE=mvp;8912880]
Help a young horse buyer out: How do I tell if the unstarted baby I see will ultimately be the horse that takes lots of leg or a little?
I know lots of that obedience is a product of training. But I’m thinking of a good pro friend of mine who had a horse she bought as an unbroken one who remained shockingly behind the leg.
How much of that is inherent, and how can I see it before the horse is test-driveable?[/QUOTE]
Agree with everything else that has been said. If either a push or pull ride is a deal breaker for you, I would not recommend purchasing an unstarted horse!
You are talking about a huge component of ridability, and you can’t test “ridability” without riding.
It’s why the Europeans have horses tested under saddle before licencing them to breed. And THATS even with generations of tested horses behind those bloodlines.
If you are trying to save $ by getting an unstarted horse, you have to accept the risk of the unknown. This is one of those qualities.
Horse’s behavior on the ground does not have the correlation you’d think to certain qualities under saddle. There are hot horses who want to “go”, but are never in front of the leg. There are lazy horses you can smack hard twice and they shape up…others will unload you. There are so many permutations of genetics and training influences that unless you are prepared to modify your ride, or sell the horse if it’s a complete mismatch, don’t get an unstarted youngster.
I think it’s a hard question to answer and I’m not sure there is such a thing. Riders can make a horse one way or another, and I would also agree that pedigree can make a difference.
A “pull ride” can be caused be many things including poor conformation, riding/training and the horse not being suited for the job it’s being asked to do. Same can be said for a “push ride.” Or, you can have a horse that appears to be a pull ride when it is a bit sensitive to the leg or a busy-in-the-saddle rider.
If I’m going to take a risk and buy an unbroke youngster, I go on pedigree, conformation and the offspring that are performing by the sire or dam. Keep to pedigrees that produce offspring that are bred to do the job you want them to do. It goes without saying that you don’t buy a dressage pedigree on a young unbroke horse with the intention of making it into a hunter. I love Flexible to death for example, but I wouldn’t breed to him if I was trying to produce a hunter or a dressage horse.
I also try and avoid any youngster that’s been overhandled and kept stalled while growing up. I hate that.
[QUOTE=Justice;8914390]
When looking at Hunter yearlings +, I never want one that gets quick in or after the jump chute. Bonus points if they pause and study the oxer before jumping and if they trot after jumping out of the chute.[/QUOTE]
That makes sense to me.
How about going in the other direction— looking for the forward-thinking one who will be light to your leg, but not so hot that he can’t think or regroup should he get rattled?
[QUOTE=Daventry;8914797]
Agree with everything else that has been said. If either a push or pull ride is a deal breaker for you, I would not recommend purchasing an unstarted horse![/QUOTE]
Thanks to you and to all others who have more or less concurred. I didn’t know whether I didn’t have a good way to figure this out about a horse, or whether no one does. I figured this would be a good place to ask for expertise in this bit of horsemanship… if there is expertise to be had.
There are reasons that I’m starting to want a two-year-old, but not if I spend a year of time and money and, it turns out, I bought the wrong flavor ride without knowing it.
[QUOTE=mvp;8915499]
That makes sense to me.
How about going in the other direction— looking for the forward-thinking one who will be light to your leg, but not so hot that he can’t think or regroup should he get rattled?[/QUOTE]
You look for a breed registry or breeding group who has a “rideability” component to the way they judge their youngsters.
I started buying Holsteiners 10ish years ago and have found that the breeders’ assessment of how rideable the horses will be has been very accurate for mine so far. That doesn’t have a direct correlation with how “hot” (or not) they are, but like I mentioned above, it does have a direct correlation to how easy they are to motivate (or calm). I don’t mind a “whoa” horse if they’re quick at the right times and not sulky about going forward. Similarly, I don’t mind a “go” horse if they’re not anxious and are thoughtful at the right times. This is what the “rideability” score gets you.
I’d also look at how social and playful a young horse is - my horse is very social with his herd members and very, very playful.
He’s quiet on the ground and right in the middle of a push/pull ride (I can spice him up easily if I want, but most of the time he starts a ride pretty much in the middle). As a yearling, he was really quiet on the ground due to lots of handling previously for an injury. But he went through a rearing on the line phase that made him seem hot.
I also think the young horses will take a lot after their dams - if she’s a mover and shaker in turnout, baby is going to follow along and get used to it. If the baby were the opposite of their dam (i.e., wanting to stay in place rather cruise), I think you’d be able to pick up on it quickly.
[QUOTE=PNWjumper;8915965]
You look for a breed registry or breeding group who has a “rideability” component to the way they judge their youngsters.
I started buying Holsteiners 10ish years ago and have found that the breeders’ assessment of how rideable the horses will be has been very accurate for mine so far. That doesn’t have a direct correlation with how “hot” (or not) they are, but like I mentioned above, it does have a direct correlation to how easy they are to motivate (or calm). I don’t mind a “whoa” horse if they’re quick at the right times and not sulky about going forward. Similarly, I don’t mind a “go” horse if they’re not anxious and are thoughtful at the right times. This is what the “rideability” score gets you.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for clarifying what “rideability” means.
I think I meant that but used other words like “Tractable,” especially for the hotter ones. I don’t mind some sensitivity so long as I can still influence the horse’s mind and have her/him think. Or-- not quite a word-- I want an animal who is “influenceable.”
I have/had a grandma, a mother and a daughter - they all ride the same it seems to me…all are bold, forward, willing. Sometimes I forget which white horse I was riding when a certain incident occurred. They are different of course, but remarkably the same…could be blood, could be me riding them all the same way ???
Two had the same quirk - probably me for not working it out with them, too, and then I began expecting it and allowing it???
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