Do you all have a preferred source of copper/zinc supplementation? Any particular product?
I skimmed the above suggestions and not really knowing too much about your soil. We have sandy loam here in TX and I have dealt with some major fungus when I had my QH it was a lot of bathing with Ivory dish soap and then the Listerine baths and even some medicated shampoo from the vet.
For preventative I upped the flax in his diet. He ate the SP omega 3 ultra and the next season he had almost no fungal anything and the little he had I could spray with Zeophyrs Tea tree oil and it would disappear. Best of luck to you. Fungus is so nasty and difficult doing those wet months especially for pasture horses.
Horsetech, Uckele and California Trace all offer a powder. Uckele is, I think, the only company making pelleted poly copper/poly zinc. Thereās also Horsetechās AZ Copper Complete if youāre looking for a more comprehensive supplement.
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SOmething to boost the immune system like HistallH - very high in turmericā¦ and perhaps medicated powder (forget the name but itās out thereā¦) And, I really like the clay based pastes such as Coat Defense and/or the ZInc Oxide based Equiderma Zinc.
and this looks interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Keratex-KMSP-450-Shield-Powder/dp/B002CX2ILM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1545323656&sr=8-1&keywords=keratex+mud+shield+powder
@J-Lu just because the soil may be high in iron doesnāt mean that iron is getting into the horse at a high level. There are a lot of factors that affect whether or not the iron gets into the grass, and whether or not itās in a form that the horses can absorb. But it seems to be the flavor of the month. We have 2 that are scratches and rain rot prone. Both improved immensely with MSM and flax. One never gets scratches any more, but will get a bit of rain rot in the winter. The other one still gets mild scratches once in a while and had a hard time this summer with the heat and humidity and hives. He will still get a bit of rain rot too, although itās much improved with the flax and MSM. We tried the zinc/copper on them and got no improvement whatsoever. So 0% success rate. Youād think that if iron was the culprit, there would be a marked decrease in problems in the winter when there is little to no grass, especially if the water tests normal. But this is the internet where a few anecdotes get repeated into facts.
No, as per our last conversation, it is not the āflavor of the monthā. Every conversation about this says āin most casesā. Most. Not all. The proof of high iron soils is out there, despite your claim that itās a myth.
We have 2 that are scratches and rain rot prone. Both improved immensely with MSM and flax.
Awesome, that is what works for some horses. Additional Omega 3 from flax, some anti-inflammatories from both.
One never gets scratches any more, but will get a bit of rain rot in the winter.
SAme same. Scratches is on the legs, rain rot is on the body. Same list of causes
The other one still gets mild scratches once in a while and had a hard time this summer with the heat and humidity and hives. He will still get a bit of rain rot too, although itās much improved with the flax and MSM. We tried the zinc/copper on them and got no improvement whatsoever. So 0% success rate.
Out of curiosity, what was the fe/cu/zn ratio in the total diet? If you donāt know, then you have no idea if you were adding enough cu/zn. Did you ever add Vit A? Or E?
Youād think that if iron was the culprit, there would be a marked decrease in problems in the winter when there is little to no grass, especially if the water tests normal. But this is the internet where a few anecdotes get repeated into facts.
Where do you think hay comes from? Itās dried grass. And for many people, from the same general soils there pasture is on. Or from just another of the large ares of the country with high iron.
Why do you imply that iron degrades in hay? It doesnāt. What was in the grass, is in the hay 
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Thanks, everyone!
@palmbeach and @cruisecontrol , the owners ground dark flax seed for their horseās diets for many months (through the summer, this horse had funk all summer). Maybe this wasnāt enough time? Balancer and feed have supplemented Omegas. It didnāt seem to help this particular horse. Their other horses look pretty good! This area in NC is rich in a particular type of clay. The horseās owner, a professional geologist, could tell you more. We are north of, but close to, the sandy southern boarder that is Southern Pines. Because of our clay base, when it rains, everything stays wet and gets rather gross. The soil has been saturated for at least a month now. Ugghh! We have three vets and two shoers at the barn, ALL say that this is an unfortunate time for funk in our area of NC.
@lorilu, Desitin has zinc oxide, I believe. It didnāt help this horse. Histall H, I will pass this along to the horse owner. Thanks! The ownerās wife is now trying a topical with witch hazel and some other astringents. She really appreciates these suggestions!! This horse is so high maintenance compared with the others at the barn, theyāve followed their (really good) vetās advice to a ātā, all suggestions are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks!!!
Astringents and Witch hazel is so not a good idea. It canāt come from the vetā¦ On an already irritated, thin, fragile skin, you donāt want to put anything that will dry out and possibly burn it.
From what I can read, they are doing too much scrubbing and cleaning, that only exacerbate the problem because it weakens the skin.
Owners need to stick with 1 solution at the time and be patient. I have the feeling that they are focusing on the problem daily and changing protocol at will every second day. The skin need to be gently treated and will need time to heal.
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Thank you!!! They are scrubbing daily and picking off scabs. That certainly canāt be comfortable! I didnāt think about the Witch hazel on top of that. They did try less proactive approach in the spring, and the scratches blew up on this horse. They came to the conclusion that when there is any moisture (like all the time here now, but normally extensive dew in the morning or heavy rain) and he has a flare up, it has to be treated daily or it spreads/gets bad. His horse was very sore last spring because of this (vet did a full lameness exam anyway). They are trying to stay with one treatment at a time and are noting what works and doesnāt. Theyāve cultured it at least once that I know of.
Thanks again! Iām printing the responses and passing them along. They are sort of new to horses (~4 years?), have a really good husband/wife vet team, and really dislike (but happily do it) the daily scrubbing! Jeff may be scrubbing too hard and aggravating the skin (no offense to anyone, but heās a guy), certainly worth mentioning.
I have 2 horses that live out 24/7. Iāve owned one for 3 1/2 years and had the other for 12 years. Neither one of them had ever had scratches before, despite the humid environment and the 5 white legs between them.
Until the hurricane a little over a year ago. (Hurricanes can bring in all kinds of strange funk it seemsā¦). They both developed scratches.
There was no other change for either of them - same diet, same water source, same husbandry routine. My property drains really well, so there was no standing water or any real excess of moisture in their paddock or field.
Long story short I tried several different topical combinations suggested to me by veterinarians without much luck. The scratches never got terribly bad, it just wouldnāt go away. Dermatologist suggested I might need systemic meds but I wanted to avoid that route if possible.
Finally I tried a dilute Chlorhexidine solution. I took Nolvasan solution and diluted it with sterile water, 4 parts sterile water to 1 part Nolvasan. This is the same concoction we use to dip the navels of newborn foals, goats, etc. I am fortunate to have access to plenty of sterile water, but the solution can also be made up using some sort of distilled or filtered bottled water. If you use regular tap water the solution will get cloudy very quickly.
I put that solution in a spray bottle and just sprayed it on the affected area. I started with twice a day, and the scratches started clearing up pretty quickly. After about a week I just sprayed once a day until all of the scabs were gone, which took maybe another week to 10 days. Neither one of them have had an issue with scratches since.
I wish your friend luck getting it figured out and cleared up!
Edited to add that although I washed the area periodically with betadine I did not scrub or pick scabs from the area, just dusted the sand off lightly with a clean soft towel if needed before treating.
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THANK YOU! I can autoclave water for them if they wish. Chlorhexidine is rather cheap, and this sure is simple enough to try. Thanks, Iāll pass this post along, too! So interesting that everything was fine until a hurricane came through! We had two hurricanes and the remnant of a third come through, and lots of rain since. The water obstacle has been full (not just wet, but full) for probably 3-4 months now, and I canāt remember the last time it was dry (it usually gets dry). So. much. mud.
I do think the diet is worth looking at.
Having said that, what I have used with some success on pastern nastiness is to wash it with Hibiclens, dry it and then put Corona ointment on it.
This may be just a fluke, but for whatever reason, this stuff works wonders for me whenever I have to deal with the odd case of scratches:
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/prā¦dder-balm-9-oz
The only reason I bought it in the first place was because the vet recommended I try a lanolin-based product on a horse with a persistent scratches-like cellulitis thing going on a few years ago, and TSC was out of both Bag Balm and Corona that day. Yet Iāve been buying the Dr. Naylor stuff exclusively ever since!
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I LOVE the Dr. Naylor cream for regular old cuts/abrasions, but never thought to try it on scratches!
The half dose copper/zinc worked for my WB this summer that had a refractory case of scratches this summer. Shave legs, chlorhexadine scrub that you let sit on for 5 min, copper/zinc. It also made his coat nice and dark.
Uckele for us.
Thank you, everyone!!! I provided this link to the owners (not COTHers) and they read through it-will continue to visit it. They are very grateful for your suggestions about what worked/didnāt work for your horse! We have another week of rain coming up, and they arenāt looking forward to keeping this horse in AGAIN for so long. Uuuuuuugggghhhhhh!!!
I spoke with the groom for a very hairy Gypsy Vanner show horseā¦think giant feathers and mane down to the ground.
I asked her if he was ever turned out. She said yes, they put the tail in a tail bag and the mane in braids folded back upon themselves.
I then asked how they kept the legs with all the hair in the feathers without scratches and she said they put on flowers of sulfur.
Interestingly, I had heard of the use of sulfur to fungal skin infections in humans.
I am currently under water where we board and had one horse with head to tail scratches. Betadiene (or generic povidone iodine) scrub baths (leave on for 15 minutes) alternating with Nolvasan (chlrohexidine) soaking of the hair cleared it up.
I buy the Betadine and Nolvasan solution and scrub by the gallon.
I have some flowers of sulfur that I will try next time.
Hilton Herbs has their Mud Defender, which was developed specifically for the treatment of scratches and rainrot. It is an anti-bacterial/anti-fungal. There is a topical, which works pretty damn good by itself on all skin crud (including summer sores, crusty bloody ears on dogs and collerettes on dogs). For recurring and hard to treat cases, feed the supplement. Start 1-2 months before your bad season starts if possible, though I have started it in the middle of a stubborn case of scratches and saw improvement within a week.
@CanteringCarrot Thanks! He recently purchased these:
https://sleezybarbhorsewear.com/product/horse-fast-leg-wraps/
and thinks they help to keep the moisture out. He bought several pairs and changes them daily. It is SO WET here and the scratches have not blown up with this horse. Which is considered to be tremendous progress. Theyāre still there, but they are not as terrible as they could be or have been! Next week is all rain, too! AAARRRGGGHHHHHH!
Thanks, @pluvinel ! I guess if you can keep scratches off a GV, you can keep scratches off anything! Flowers of sulfur, hmmmmmm.
@Lori T . Thanks! Mud Defender will be of interest to the wife, as she is really keen on more natural approaches if possible and particularly in the future if we ever dry out. Weāre currently in a freakishly wet 3 month period and up to our eyeballs in mud.
I have samples of his feed plus supplements to weigh and analyze. I will assume that his horseās pasture is similar to my horseās pasture (same property) and use my Equi Analytical pasture data in the analysis to get a summer profile. Iām planning to do the hay in the next week, which is a large part of the forage right now.
