Breeding for the last time in a 30 year career and I’m searching for a Homozygous Black Point Hanoverian, possibly KWPN Stallion for my sensitive skinned red-head. She is petite, bold, and inquisitive with amazing movement, and I’m searching for a stallion that will not take away size of substance and preferably will alter her color, only as the bright reds have a harder time in our warm, wet climate. Any suggestions? I had a favorite but have been unable to secure semen. I’d love suggestions, especially from those who have raised foals by their favorites!
What is a homozygous black point horse?
Do you mean a bay?
Is your mare red bay or a chestnut?
If she is a chestnut and you breed her to a bay then you have a % chance of getting either a bay or a chestnut. There are some good websites on color genetics.
I have a chestnut mare who has no issues with bugs however one of her plain dark bay pasture mates is tormented by them. I am not sure the genes controlling allergies are connected to coat color.
Can you share the name of the stallion you liked? That will help us find something similar.
Have you looked at any of the Argentinus sons?
Have you looked at any of the Now Or Never sons?
Sorry I can’t make a link work but google ‘warmblood stallion Winston’ look for a link to Benny de Ruiter Stables. He is bay and by Now Or Never.
Avalon Equine has stallion sons by both Argentinus and Now Or Never.
Both Bays and chestnuts have black skins. Some Bays are as light as a medium chestnut.
IME the horses that suffer sunburn are ones with pink skin, like a bald faced paint even if the body color is bay.
I expect perlinos and cremellos might be at risk too.
Human redheads typically have very pale skin and can burn easily. But this is not true of a chestnut horse with black skin. Or even of a grey/white horse with black skin.
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Thank you all. Yes, I am aware that other coat colors can have allergic issues. This filly has been tested (we are involved in research) so we know that she is allergic to these insects, and also that her red factor MAY be part of the equation. The genetic linking the issues are not fully understood, but there is evidence that there is a link. This filly’s black and bay siblings (and there are many!) do not have the issue, so the hope is that we can spare a foal the condition, which regardless may not be passed on at all. However we are responsible breeders who are interested in producing the healthiest, soundest horses possible. This lady has no OCD and amazing conformation, feet and movement so we are seeking the best match possible!
Yes! I have owned a dilute horse and his offspring and I would agree there can be skin issues there, although we were fortunate that he and his babies never suffered any. Again there may be a link to other genes (he was old Gelderlander lines and they are known to be hardy - also no chance of in-breeding as he was unique in pedigree.) My only extremely sensitive-skinned mare to date is a black mare! (She does carry the red gene from her dam, who has iron skin.)
I have seen Now or Never M and I adore him, but for this young lady would prefer something with more dressage lines as we actually have a lot of good jumper lines in most of our offspring. Argentinus is awesome, but this girl is fairly refined, and although I would love to add substance I would avoid a huge stallion for her first foal for safety reasons. He may be a bit too much of a ‘big kid.’
I love the F-line for her, and I’ve considered Furstenball but again he is pretty refined. Finest, for me, is a bit too small footed. I’m a stickler for good feet! Fresh would be an advantage for a maiden mare, but we have great resources for frozen so that is still an option.
Thank you in advance for all your good suggestions!
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P.S. Before anyone gets offended who has chestnut mares let me assure you I do NOT have a problem with red-heads! I currently have eight chestnut mares. We are attempting to avoid a gene base that would result in a more sensitive ‘skinned’ individual because we ADORE her!
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But if your bay is homozygous for black, then you’d never get a chestnut baby from that cross. I think that’s what OP is hoping for, by asking for EE stallion recommendations.
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I would be looking at Donnerhall lines then, many are dark bay or black. He was well represented in 2008 Olympics.
http://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2010/08/donnerhall/ Olderstyle with the heavier bone and usually plenty of size.
Yes, this.
OP - I would suggest that you cross-post this on the SH breeding forum as well, there is a wealth of information among the posters who frequent it, and this has been discussed on numerous occasions over the years.
Best of luck! 
(I would suggest Landkoenig - he is homozygous for black points and produces lovely and fancy babies – but he is primarily jumper lines…)
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Perhaps Rotspon’s son Rosevelt that went to the Rio Olympics with Allison Brock? I agree with Dr Doolittle this thread might be more successful in the breeding forum.
Doctor Wendell is homozygous for dark. He was exported both believe still available frozen via Hilltop.
If your ONLY reason for looking for bay (or black) is skin issues - I just want to say, I’ve had a few bay and black babies that were horribly tortured by bugs. I suspect allergies are much more a genetic issue then they are a color issue, based on my own breeding experience, AND the experiences of my friends. Breeding a mare that has allergies is going to give you some risk of a baby with the same allergies.
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Escudo and Escudo II are both black and very nice.
Freestyle available through Yancey Farms
Schwarzenegger through Aileron Farms in PEI Canada. I’ve seen him in person and he is gorgeous and has a wonderful temperament which he passes on.
That’s who I was going to recommend! There’s a 3yr old where I’m at and he’s quite fancy and has such a good temperament.
If you are looking for a homozygous stallion, just make sure you check with the breeder – not all black/dark bay stallions throw babies with black points.
The Escudos (both only available frozen now since E2 died the year before last) are Ee: they are black, but heterozygous.
I have a lovely true black mare by E2 out of my chestnut mare by Art Deco - but I had a 50% chance of getting a chestnut 
(I would have been happy with anything, but really was hoping for a black foal - I had a 25% chance, and just got lucky.)
Homozygous means they will throw the desired trait - EE would be homozygous for black - which is what OP actually is looking for… AA would be homozygous for black points (agouti). But if the horse is not EE (homozygous for black), then even if it is AA, there will be no black points if the baby ends up ee (chestnut based coat).
You are correct, if the stallion is Ee, there is a chance of a red based foal, and then the “points” are irrelevant, there will be none, the baby may carry that genetic, but it won’t show up physically. Black points are only a function of a black based horse.
OP, you might post on the sport horse breeding forum for more feedback. I’m going to stand by my above comment - allergies are a genetic issue - color isn’t going to fix it. I’ve seen that IRL.
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