Looking to see if there is something that could work in the NJ/NY area. I’m in search of getting flat lessons about once maybe twice a week at a place that could provide a horse if possible. I’m experienced and have shown in the big equitation and 1.25m jumpers and I’m hoping to learn more of the technical flatwork such as shoulders in, haunches in, etc. I certainly would not mind a dressage trainer, however I only want to learn more tools for flatting and this would not be a long gig as I’m not looking to competitively switch disciplines right now. TIA!!
Every sound horse is suited for flatwork and I would suggest that improving your flatwork on your own horse would be twice as valuable as on a lesson horse.
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I’m curious how you got to Big Eq and 1.25m jumpers without these fairly basic movements?
Any Dressage trainer worth their salt can teach horse and rider independent of the saddle used. Any Dressage trainer worth their salt can teach the Hunter rider to a solid 2nd Level without impacting how that horse moves as a Hunter
Edit: proper training will IMPROVE how that horse moves as a Hunter. I really meant - it’s not going to take a nice long Hunter profile and make him automatically move like “real” Dressage horse, unless the rider chooses to do that.
This doesn’t make sense. No flatwork, no correct riding, certainly not Big Eq and 1.25m jumpers. What do you mean exactly? Every horse has flatwork in him. Do you mean he gets bored doing flatwork in a ring? Every “my horse hates flatwork” I’ve seen is because movements are drilled, there’s no variety, there’s nothing made a game of any of it.
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OP you have a lot of options in NJ. I would post this in the dressage forum to get usable up to date recommendations. No-one in this forum is likely to be able to answer this question.
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Thank you for saying what I was thinking, sitting here eating my breakfast muffin and going, “That’s… an oddly remarkable accomplishment.”
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exactly… they frequently ask for shoulders-in, haunches-in, leg yield, etc in big eq flat classes.
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I mean, I know it’s been a minute since I’ve sat and stared at the Big Eq ring, but where exactly are they calling for lateral movements in an eq flat? I’m having a hard time imagining a group of 20 all leg-yielding.
OP I don’t have any recommendations for a trainer or program, but I applaud you for recognizing this hole in your training and setting out to fix it. I have seen pleennnty of hj programs churn out Big Eq kids and Low Jr Jumpers with no flatwork, and none of that is your fault. I apologize for the snarkiness of some of the other posters here as you seek to expand your education. No one should be mocked or belittled for seeking help. Good luck and hope some recommendations come of it.
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I haven’t seen them do it at a final but I’ve seen maclay and WIHS flats do shoulder ins and leg yields- those classes are usually 7-10 tho
FWIW, none of my comments were intended to be snarky or mocking, not in the slightest. They were all questions trying to get to what’s really going on. 1.25m jumper courses aren’t tiny things for most people, and a technical 3’6" course with potentially 4’ wide oxers can be gotten around but unless a rider has “a horse a monkey could ride” (just a saying, don’t take offense), there has to be some reasonable level of knowledge to get around with any hope of placing
Some of the post doesn’t make enough sense to offer help - “my horse isn’t suited for flatwork” - ?
Is the OP a junior, or showing as a true AA, who is maybe showing “big eq” that’s really only 3’ fences? It takes much less finessing a horse to get over a course at that height, than 3’6"
All this clarification only helps the OP figure out what trainer might be best suited for them
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The (relatively new) NCEA equitation class has a requirement for lateral work in the flat phase.
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Love it
Thank you, that is exactly how I feel in terms of seeing this large gap in my training. Although I have recognized it for years now I have not had the opportunity to try to blend both types of training into my experience. I did some big eq however I definitely was not competing in Florida consistently or at top venues where you would be asked to perform lateral movements on the flat. I have not been able to compete in a USET which is more likely to test you in this, but the jumping seat medals I have participated in would mostly have the counter canter be the hardest thing they asked at local A shows. There certainly is a large gap in the hunter/jumper world for teaching riders these skills. I’m thankful to have well enough training on pace, track, and distance to help me get to medal/Maclay finals and move up in the jumpers but I am just trying to receive more help in the technicalities of connection. Thank you so much for recognizing this and replying.
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@equitation2018 Dude, I have been riding for 50+ years and eventing for 30 of them and I am still learning how to do those movements correctly and I have a few of the top dressage trainers still shaking their heads. 
My advice based on how the original post is worded, the things you want to learn are NOT tricks. They are based on the 20 meter circle. They are fundamental movements can be done correctly once the 20 meter circle is. I say this because I hope you aren’t thinking this is a couple of weeks thing. If your horse already hates flatwork, then the place to start is the circle, shoulder fore, straightness on the 1/4 line, and a myriad of things BEFORE the shoulder-in etc.
This is not meant to make these seem as some sort of secret. The point is that the movements become effective tools to train horses if the underlying fundamentals are also mastered. Anybody can “do” a shoulder-in, but if you want to use it to train a horse, you need to know how to use it.
These simple movements are not a “Do X to get Y” sort of deal. Every horse has different balance and thus learning on a schoolmaster can only give you a “feel” of the movement but not the appropriate aids needed to get it on your horse. I would ride my trainer’s GP dressage horses so I could feel what was correct, but the actual aids on my horse were NOT the same and we went back to the 20 meter circle to start. And I still suck.
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Thank you! For clarification, the horse I’m discussing is not mine. I’ve had him for about a month and am leasing him until the end of the year. He has a nice record and is just starting his prime age. He’s not your big beefy warmblood that can turn on a dime and responds to everything you ask as he kinda likes his way of going, a great jump though. I’ve been told by many of his old riders to leave him alone on the flat (don’t get handsy, don’t do a draw rein, etc) as it’s just not his thing. Essentially a “He goes the way he wants to go and don’t interfere it’ll just tick him off”. Of course when flatting I do make sure our communication is functioning. Transitions, collection and extension, bending, etc. In addition as you mentioned “you need to know how to use it” I’m definitely seeking to figure out the how but I just wonder if there’s a better way for me to understand it on possibly a horse that is a little more experienced and less tricky, then I would have a little bit better of an understanding on how to properly ask the horse I have (or any other horse I flat), especially without upsetting him lol. When I flat I ask for certain things and can feel things, however I just know and think that I am not feeling and doing it properly. Hence, why I think a schoolmaster can start me in the right direction then I can progress from there, thank you!
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Oh yes I definitely know that 
If only riding were that simple!
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Watched this class last week. I loved it, was the most invested I was spectating in 2 weeks.
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The clarification and details are appreciated and to be clear, my comment wasn’t intended to be perceived as snarky.
I think it’s admirable you want more education and experience in your flatwork horsemanship. You and the horse you’re riding may already have the basic knowledge and schooling for shoulders in, haunches in, etc., perhaps without realizing it. It sounds like you may just need it to be better explained in a more structured format where you can experience it step-by-step, separated from jumping exercises. I hope you find the perfect instructor and enjoy the process.
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My personal opinion is sometimes we lease a horse because they jump the jumps and we might not necessarily care that it wasn’t a flatwork machine. I might understand someone going, this horse is a seeing eye dog over 1.50 but if you try to man handle it, it will plant you in the ground, so just let it roll. Some horses are for lease because they are too quirky to sell. I can see a trainer or owner getting upset someone tried to dressage their jumper too much and got it not thinking about its job of clearing fences.
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No worries at all! I guess I could’ve worded it better but my post was so long I didn’t feel like going into the whole thing about the horse. I also just wanted to clarify that if someone knew of a trainer then they also knew that they’d have to provide a horse. Thank you for the acknowledgement, I grew up with a continuous learning mindset with this sport and for the past several years I’ve focused so much on learning from farriers, vets, trainers online (aka Madden Method, Equestrian Coach,etc), FEI/USEF rule book, braiding, horse care, anything. Now I’m searching to fill the gap in the riding department. Thank you again for the kind words!
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