Secretariat Sons in Sporthorse breeding (Eventing) - Opinions from North America?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Hard to find him in sons now a days but he is not uncommon in a lot of pedigrees. He is in the third generation in a couple of my horses. One of my broodmares that I’m using for breeding event horses has him doubled up in her dam line. We will see what she produces but she is a good moving Sound mare after racing for 7 years, 105 starts and winning almost 250,000. She looks the type to produce a good event horse both on paper and in person. http://www.pedigreequery.com/kourages+kelly

But I do like to see him (or really his dam ) in a pedigree.

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7652753]
Hard to find him in sons now a days but he is not uncommon in a lot of pedigrees. He is in the third generation in a couple of my horses. One of my broodmares that I’m using for breeding event horses has him doubled up in her dam line. We will see what she produces but she is a good moving Sound mare after racing for 7 years, 105 starts and winning almost 250,000. She looks the type to produce a good event horse both on paper and in person. http://www.pedigreequery.com/kourages+kelly

But I do like to see him (or really his dam ) in a pedigree.[/QUOTE]

Interesting pedigree. You have a full sister to MOW in tail female.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=pony grandma;7645871]
I was always curious about a mare I had at one time - her grandsire was a stallion named Grey Legion, son of Secretariat, and he had this info on his pedigree page http://www.pedigreequery.com/grey+legion

Breeder: Spendthrift Farm

State Bred: KY

According to Equibase foaled in FL and bred by Gilman Paper Co.

Foaled Feb. 22. Sold for $550,000 as a yearling at Saratoga, record price.
Stood in 1983 for $2500 at Spendthrift. Sent to Colorado to become a founding sire for the American Sport Horse.

and not one thing can be found further about this.[/QUOTE]

Grey Legion was bred by my father who managed all of Howard Gilman’s ( he bred under the name Gilman Paper Corp for business reasons) Thoroughbred interests. Not sure why pedigree query has Spendthrift as the breeder. I would have to check my late fathers notes to confirm if he was foaled in Florida. When I started paying attention to what would become my livelihood all of Mr. Gilman’s mares foaled for the most part in Virginia for a number of years and then in KY. My father’s close friend and excellent horseman, L Clay Camp’s farm was in Virginia. Virginia was a “powerhouse breeding state” until the late 80s.

Grey Legion would have been from Big Red’s first crop. My father was an original share holder in Secretariat. Without checking I am pretty sure Show Stopper was bred to Secretariat several times. She threw great looking foals that pretty much always sold well.

This colt was a “sales topper” at the time. Unfortunately he got hurt in a training accident and never raced.

Another yearling bred by my father, a Northern Dancer colt out of a Stage Door Johnny mare, Bubbling sold for $4,600,000 at the 1984 Saratoga yearling sale, also a sales topper and the highest priced yearling sold at Saratoga to this day. I remember that night very well. A good times was had by all! My father was in rare form. We partied at Siro’s until the sun came up. Went right from the bar to the sales barns took off my jacket and tie and mucked stalls. Voted the best dressed groom that year. (It wasn’t the first time I showed up at 5:30 am in jacket and tie).

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=findeight;7645273]
Add Academy Award, he got several very good show Hunters including Caped Crusader (JC reg as Oscar Time). Stood in Ohio until recently, have friends with an Academy Award daughter who was a nice show Hunter with very promising yearling by leading Holsteiner ( I think) bred back for 2015.[/QUOTE]

Academy Award would be one of my “picks” remember him well.

A very well made horse as were most of Secretariats get but he could run unlike most. Which is why Claiborne chose to stand him. Hoping he would be the “heir apparent” to his daddy that stood at the farm until his death at 19.

It is not surprising that sons of Secretariat appear to have done well in the Sport Horse world. The were big, strong and “flashy” show horse types.

Everybody knew who Big Red was and everybody wanted one. Given the fact that the vast majority weren’t worth a dam on the race course they could be had for very reasonable money. They had good temperament so a lot of his get were never gelded early on.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Mara;7646654]
Wow, his dam was a full sister to Raise A Native.[/QUOTE]

Yes she was.

This is probably way pedigree query had the wrong breeder of Grey Legion.

Spendthrift was the breeder of Raise A Native .

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7646664]
There doesn’t seem to be any question that Secretariat sons produced good sport horses, probably better than their race horses–which is probably why many of them ended up producing sport horses. Given that Sir Gaylord is one of the most prolific lines for international sport horses in history, one suspects that Somethingroyal had a great deal to do with the Secretariat jump. I’m not dismissing Bold Ruler by any stretch of the imagination, though.

Since Careless Ruler stood most of his life in Germany, their opinion on his quality and the quality of his foals would mean a great deal.

Would they be willing to use him today?[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t take exception if you did “dismiss” Bold Ruler. He was probably Big Red’s “down fall” in the breeding shed.

Bold Ruler almost put the Phipps’ out of “business”

Tremendous race horse but a dud in the breeding shed. Not just my opinion. The Phipps refused to give up on him and bred their best mares year after year hoping. And his best horse, the legendary Secretariat they lost to the flip of a coin.

I’ll elaborate if anyone is interested.

Because it is very late and I should never had picked up a PM. Knowing full well that if I saw an interesting post that I could add to hours would go by. And they have.

Just incase some don’t know Sir Gaylord is a half brother to Secretariat by Turn To? Correct if wrong.

Mare’s from the Turn To line have worked very well with Danzig. Not sure if the same can be said with “diluted blood”.

[Mara]

[QUOTE=gumtree;7652919]
I wouldn’t take exception if you did “dismiss” Bold Ruler. He was probably Big Red’s “down fall” in the breeding shed.

Bold Ruler almost put the Phipps’ out of “business”

Tremendous race horse but a dud in the breeding shed. Not just my opinion. The Phipps refused to give up on him and bred their best mares year after year hoping. And his best horse, the legendary Secretariat they lost to the flip of a coin.

I’ll elaborate if anyone is interested.

Because it is very late and I should never had picked up a PM. Knowing full well that if I saw an interesting post that I could add to hours would go by. And they have.

Just incase some don’t know Sir Gaylord is a half brother to Secretariat by Turn To? Correct if wrong.

Mare’s from the Turn To line have worked very well with Danzig. Not sure if the same can be said with “diluted blood”.[/QUOTE]

Would love to know more about the Bold Ruler story and why serious breeders consider him a “dud” in the breeding shed. That’s an angle I’ve never seen explored - all of the popular Thoroughbred racing/breeding literature presents Bold Ruler in an almost legendary light.

[back_in_the_saddle]

For kicks, I tried to find a mare directly related to secretariat through a daugher on the direct mare line and could not. Only one gelding. Where have the direct secretariat dam line mares gone?

[ottbee]

I have this guy and it’s been so neat to read this thread and see many of the names. We don’t do much, but we have fun and he’s got a fantastic brain and very brave.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/tumble+creek

[arbiter]

I have an offspring of the stakes-winning Globe, who is a grandson of Prince Stanley. Great temperament.

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=back in the saddle;7653175]
For kicks, I tried to find a mare directly related to secretariat through a daugher on the direct mare line and could not. Only one gelding. Where have the direct secretariat dam line mares gone?[/QUOTE]

I just looked at pedigree query and in 30 seconds found one, in Argentina. Another 30 seconds and found one in the US.

[back_in_the_saddle]

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;7653588]
I just looked at pedigree query and in 30 seconds found one, in Argentina. Another 30 seconds and found one in the US.[/QUOTE]

Lol I should have elaborated… For sale… Find one for sale and I just may buy it. (If the owner of the one I found not for sale doesn’t take me up on my offer to buy)

[grayarabpony]

Oh OK! That makes much more sense!

[grayarabpony]

[QUOTE=gumtree;7652919]
I wouldn’t take exception if you did “dismiss” Bold Ruler. He was probably Big Red’s “down fall” in the breeding shed.

Bold Ruler almost put the Phipps’ out of “business”

Tremendous race horse but a dud in the breeding shed. Not just my opinion. The Phipps refused to give up on him and bred their best mares year after year hoping. And his best horse, the legendary Secretariat they lost to the flip of a coin.

I’ll elaborate if anyone is interested.

Because it is very late and I should never had picked up a PM. Knowing full well that if I saw an interesting post that I could add to hours would go by. And they have.

Just incase some don’t know Sir Gaylord is a half brother to Secretariat by Turn To? Correct if wrong.

Mare’s from the Turn To line have worked very well with Danzig. Not sure if the same can be said with “diluted blood”.[/QUOTE]

How was Bold Ruler a dud when he was leading stallion of the year 7 years running and 8 years total?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=back in the saddle;7653175]
For kicks, I tried to find a mare directly related to secretariat through a daugher on the direct mare line and could not. Only one gelding. Where have the direct secretariat dam line mares gone?[/QUOTE]

Here is a boy still intact who just came up on by Facebook feed directly related to Secretariat on his dam line (and sire line)…not quite the same but you could make something close Plus he is pretty good looking based on the pictures.

http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pedigree.cfm?page_state=ORDER_AND_CONFIRM&reference_number=7714357

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Mara;7652940]
Would love to know more about the Bold Ruler story and why serious breeders consider him a “dud” in the breeding shed. That’s an angle I’ve never seen explored - all of the popular Thoroughbred racing/breeding literature presents Bold Ruler in an almost legendary light.[/QUOTE]

“Tremendous race horse but a dud in the breeding shed”

I seemed to have left out part of the sentence. It should have read;

“Tremendous race horse but a bit of a dud in the breeding shed for the Phipps’ considering the mare power they threw at him”

Sorry it was late and I had a few cocktails and did not copy and past everything from my word processor that I write everything in before posting.

It seemed to read the way I wanted when I hit the button. But obviously only in my mind.

I will finish the thought in the near future when I have the time. Just wanted to correct what I was thinking.

[vineyridge]

I know Bold Ruler had a reputation for throwing fragile horses.

[ise]

I have a 9 yo Innkeeper mare out of a SWB mare by Gaugin De Lully. The mare “Illiniza” is very successful in eventing, currently competing at Preliminary. She is trained and competed by Ryan Wood. She is an excellent jumper - very “cat like” and her gallop is super.
We do intend to breed her in the future.

[Maren]

Georgie2055 - have you seen any of the Trakehner foals in Bulgaria? Quote the mare her this guy has assembled.

[vineyridge]

[QUOTE=Maren;7659191]
Georgie2055 - have you seen any of the Trakehner foals in Bulgaria? Quote the mare her this guy has assembled.[/QUOTE]

Quite the mare herd?

I gather that he owns the Secretariat son and has several foals that he is extremely pleased with. I think he’s trying to decide if it’s worth sending him off to freeze semen, since Bulgaria has no facilities for that. Horse is very senior, so it isn’t an easy decision.

If there would be people willing to use frozen from a Secretariat son in WB breeding, that would be a factor in his decision.