I’ve been reading Abram Hewitt’s Sire Lines and was struck by the outstanding quality of Count Fleet who won his Belmont by 25 lengths, then retired.
In a virtual match race between Secretariat and Count Fleet over the Belmont distance, who would win?
Well, using STRICTLY their real Belmont times, Secretariat. Count Fleet would probably be a lot closer behind him than Secretariat’s actual Belmont Stakes competitors, though.
In reality any theoretical matchup would have to account for different types of surfaces (would Secretariat really beat a Man o’ War racing on modern surfaces with modern equipment?) Different training styles. I’ve even seen one list of “Triple Crown Greats” that gives the top honor of all the TC winners to Citation (based on total career) over Secretariat–Citation ran older, came back from an injury, only lost by a very narrow margin giving something close to twenty pounds to the horse that beat him, etc.
There was an editorial in the Blood Horse right after Secretariat’s Belmont making the comparison in depth between Secretariat and CF - conclusion was pretty much equal. I have a copy from the Keeneland Library. When I’m not working, I’ll try to scan it.
Very interesting contemporary assessment of Secretariat, trying to be objective. He did not mention one of the points I think added with Count Fleet, the fact that due to war time fuel restrictions, the tracks cut track grooming and maintenance down to absolute minimum. Hertz says Belmont was only grooming the track once a day, in between training and races. On Secretariat’s positive roster, I also think he benefited from TV. So many people SAW it. Secretariat was an emotional experience. I do definitely think he was a great racehorse, but I have wondered a few times what might have happened had Man o’ War (my vote for the title Big Red and for the best racehorse of the 1900s) been televised. He once won by 100 lengths. Multiple times won by double digits. Carried 130 pounds as a 2-year-old. We can compare through history all day; without having them on the same track, same day, hard to know.
But overall, as an objective evaluation, I liked this editorial. And his final proposal would indeed have been fascinating.
Blood Horse, July 9, 1973
Editorial - It’s simply signed “the Editor”
If Secretariat were to stop racing right now, 30 years hence, when the bloom has gone from our current infatuation with this horse, so we are left only with the cold tabulation of his racing record:
Chances are we would be obligated to place Secretariat in a niche with Count Fleet.
They were about the same kind of 2-year-olds, although Count Fleet was ranked higher on the Experimental Free Handicap, assigned six pounds above scale at 132 by the late John B. Campbell, while Kenny Noe Jr. ranked Secretariat only three pounds above scale at 129 pounds. In his last start at two, Count Fleet won the Walden Stakes by a Secretariat-type margin of 30 lengths.
At three, Count Fleet did not lose the Wood Memorial, beat a horse probably as good as Sham - Blue Swords - by three lengths in the Kentucky Derby and by eight lengths on an off track in the Preakness. Then he won the Withers by five in the mud and won the Belmont by a wide margin (25 lengths) in record time while injured.
At three, Secretariat inexplicably lost the Wood but demonstrated complete superiority over his contemporaries in winning the Triple Crown races in record times, and then added the Arlington Invitational, which probably was not a greater task than winning the 1943 Withers.
So the records of these two, right now, hardly are distinguishable, the reputations each enjoyed while racing probably are comparable, their greatness hailed no more enthusiastically than, perhaps, that accorded Graustark or Hoist the Flag before their injuries.
The point is that the Count Fleet niche of greatness, 30 years after he left the track, is below that level reserved for Man o’ War and Citation. Thirty years from now, Secretariat’s record, so far, probably would put him right there with Count Fleet.
It is our belief that Secretariat is more than that. Opinions die, however; records live. And Secretariat’s record is not likely to be enhanced, in retrospect, by running off from such as My Gallant, or Our Native, or Sham again in the Travers, or beating last year’s 3-year-old champion at scale weight in the Woodward or Jockey Club Gold Cup.
Handicapper Noe already has pronounced Secretariat seven pounds better than Key to the Mint, eight better than stablemate Riva Ridge, 15 better than Summer Guest by his Brooklyn Handicap assignment - and these are his closest rivals.
Secretariat’s true place in the history of the Turf cannot be attained with hollow victories gained by judicious selection of spots where weight, distance, and competition are favorable - management counted wise and prudent with an ordinary horse.
To be Horse of the Century, Secretariat must meet every genuine challenge. The only such challenge left for Secretariat in all the world is the 1 1/2 miles, uphill and down around irregular turns, clockwise, at weight for age against Europe’s best classic and older horses, the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe, the greatest prize of all, run the first Sunday of October in Paris.
Why take the risk? Why accept such a challenge? Because it is a challenge. Because he might not win it. And that is what the sport of racing is about.
I found this:
Count Fleet also won the Preakness one week after taking down the Derby in 1943. Two weeks later, he won the Withers Stakes, and two weeks after that he scored a 25-length win in the Belmont.
That is what to me is so incredible about the older horses. Although some horse has to win a race, whether it’s in good time or good company, many of those older horses thought nothing about going out and racing once a week.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6380075]
I found this:
That is what to me is so incredible about the older horses. Although some horse has to win a race, whether it’s in good time or good company, many of those older horses thought nothing about going out and racing once a week.[/QUOTE]
Not quite once/week, but for those of us who remember Kelso, he ran an average of 9 races/year for SEVEN years…And think of the variety of competitors he faced during that time. Loved that guy!!
And that is one of the things that is killing racing. The good ones (unless they are geldings) don’t stay around to build on their fan base. They go straight into the breeding shed. That’s one of the things that makes Zenyatta so special. Of course, good mares do tend to race longer than stallions, simply because their breeding potential is so limited.
Right now horse racing and breeding bear the signs of a classic bubble. Eventually it will pop because no one in the general populace will care, and there are so many other ways to gamble–even some kinds that require skill and not just dumb luck.
I’d like to see potential stallions race at least through their 4 year old year, health permitting.
BTW, it appears that Count Fleet and Secretariat were about equal in the breeding shed as well, although Count Fleet produced slightly better sons. But Secretariat will be in the population longer, just because he had so many good daughters.
Sunrise at Count Fleet’s grave, October 1, 2010
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http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk8/dressagetraks/WEG%20Count%20Fleet/DSC03376.jpg
A beautiful and well-maintained site. Long since out of Hertz’s family’s hands, but I found somebody who knew the present people, and he took me in. (Side note: Driving through Paris, Kentucky, for the first time ever when it’s still dark is an adventure. The roads don’t go like you expect them to. I was meeting my contact at the court house, but it was pitch black, because I wanted to see sunrise at the grave. I did find the court house but was grateful once or twice the cops were still sleeping.) Very grateful to the people there who were willing to talk to me and let me nose around their private property. The shot of sunrise through the cleft of the oak tree is probably my favorite shot from my whole WEG trip.
Dtraks, thanks for the lovely photos! That is indeed a well-maintained site. Who is buried under the obelisk? And that’s neat that Count Fleets sire and dam are there, too, together!
The obelisk says Meadow Skipper. Count Fleet to the right of it, Nevele Pride to the left. The place became a Standardbred farm after Hertz’s day.
There is basically a semicircle of stones behind the big three, a mix of TB and SB. At roughly 11:00 and 1:00, if you looked at that semicircle as the top half of a clock face, there are two little private “annexes” coming off the main semicircle. The one on the right has Reigh Count and Quickly. The one on the left I forget the name, and the farm worker showing me said that they were all puzzled about that one, why that horse would have a place of honor. It wasn’t a name with a reputation attached. Maybe a personal favorite of the Hertz’s, who knows. I know their first favorite mare was Amelia Peabody, but she was on the semicircle; it wasn’t her.
Beautiful place.
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