My sweet parents who are not very horse savvy offered to take a mule who was in bad shape living down the road. The owner happily passed her over. But the mule has no training what so ever. With work I have gotten her halter broke and I can lead her around and groom and pick her feet. We have been working on putting her feet on the farrier stand and experiencing all the tools on her feet… however, we are not at the point where she will stand quietly for a whole trim… and she needs a whole trim very very badly. Who knows when her last owner got her feet done. For her comfort and the safety of everyone, I think (*edit: as does the farrier) she should be sedated or calmed down in some way, she rears and pulls back when she gets too claustrophobic… anyone have any suggestions?
When I boarded a very cranky horse, the owner got dormosedan gel from the vet. It looks like wormer but you put it under the tongue and wait about 30 mins. She wasn’t falling over asleep but next to it. Didn’t have any trouble out of her to get her feet trimmed!
Step one is to talk to your farrier and ask your farrier how they want to deal with this situation. They are the person who is going to be under the critter handling sharp tools.
When I had this situation I suggested sedation and the farrier wanted to try a few other tricks first. In the end we never needed to use sedation.
I know it’s hard because her feet probably make your toes curl, but any way you can postpone the trim until she is more comfortable having her feet handled?
I would not normally suggest that, but mules are their own special critter and once they get an idea of you, it can be hard to reshape that opinion. If she is rearing she might not be ready for a farrier, and it’ll make future encounters very difficult.
Exactly. My farrier will not work on a sedated horse except in very specific circumstances. He finds many types of sedation to make them more dangerous than if fully “awake.” They aren’t always calmer, but just unsteady, and for some horses this freaks them out even more and they become even more reactive.
With my farrier’s permission we tried Dorm gel on my TB mare when she was having some farrier anxiety related to shoulder pain. Once it worked perfectly, once it seemed to oversedate her and make her too unsteady, and the last time it didn’t seem to do anything. Luckily, by then, we had the shoulder issue figured out but I didn’t find it to be reliable enough to really be helpful.
I’d let the farrier evaluate the situation first, and then make a recommendation. There might be an appropriate med that needs the vet to administer; maybe worth doing once and then working on ground/farrier manners for the next visit.
I’m a firm believer in ‘better living through chemistry’. I’ve had two I needed to sedate in order for everyone to be safe and comfortable. Dormosedan didn’t work particularly well in my situations, but 1-2 cc’s of Ace did the trick very nicely. I would talk to your vet and farrier and perhaps do a test run with your drug of choice to see what dose and timing works best. With Ace, I have found that 1 cc about 20 mins before the work starts, then another cc about half way through the work makes everything much less stressful for all of us.
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Every farrier I have ever worked with knows what and how much they would like the horse to have. Based on their observation of how and what the horse is reacting to. Most horses only needed to be “dosed” a couple of time before they learn the drill. But I suppose that depends on the care taker’s skills.
Most good farriers days are pretty full. So when we have the odd horse that is still learning the drill. I have them call or text about 30 minutes before they get here. So the horse is in the “mood” and ready. We usually have a number of horses being done so I just time the difficult horse accordingly.
Exactly. IMO caretakers should know what and how much every horse under their care “needs” when a situation comes up. A day will come when this “knowledge” may be paramount. IMO every care taker should know how and be comfortable with giving an IM injection. IMO they should know how to give both, IM & IV. Time can be of the essence and and knowing how to give an IV could save serious injury or lives.
A good starting point for the average full grown TB is 1 1/2 cc of Ace. Some benefit from a cocktail of Dorm and Ace.This is not advice just my experience.
Unfortunately we are risking soundness issues right now. I have stalled as long as I can and we have made tremendous progress from having absolutely zero training to basic ground manner skills. But its getting too dangerous now. She respects and likes me. The rearing is not meant to be dangerous or scary just a “I want my foot back now”. In an ideal world we would never sedate her for trimming and have her comfortable. But if it takes altering some chemistry to make it a more pleasant experience, I will do that. The farrier recommended some sort of sedation but also said he was not a vet and would not tell me specifics. So I will be talking to the vet. Just wanted to see if anyone had a good suggestion to be thinking of/researching.
We have a little mule that was not handled much when we got him, and even after a year he is still very wary of strangers and won’t let them even get close. We handled him like a young foal and started picking up his feet, tapping them, cleaning them, putting them down, etc. before the trimmer came. He also reared up or tried to kick and pulled away because he was scared and off balance from having his foot lifted. Mules seem to respond a little differently then horses (it has to be their idea) and are very smart. Ours responds well to treats and/or clicker training, so he gets a treat when he does what we ask of him. We can’t make him do anything he doesn’t want to do.
When our farrier came the first time, we took it very slowly with an intro to the trimmer (treats and touched all over), did one hoof, took a break, worked on another horse, came back to him and did another hoof. I think we only got the fronts done the first time but made it a positive experience. Between farrier visits we continued working with him. After the second or third visit, he stood like a champ for all four.
Good luck with yours!
If your farrier agrees, schedule the farrier visit to coincide with a visit from your veterinarian, and try him on some Rompun. If there are pain or arthritic issues that are making the farrier work uncomfortable, this tranquilizer also has pain killing effects. It is short term stuff. It is not legally dispensed by veterinarians, so it isn’t something that you can give yourself. But it may be your farrier’s choice in medication for this job, especially for the first time. Sometimes it is used in conjunction with Dorm, or Ace, and known as a “shoeing cocktail”.
Dormosedan was a life saver for an OTTB in the barn who had been hot nailed one too many times before coming to live where he does now. Dormosedan was given for the first 5 trimming and reshoing sessions, and now, he can finally keep his composure for a whole trim and shoe without the Dormosedan. It’s a good tool for some horses dealing with issues that are beyond a training issue or stem from a horse with terrible anxiety over the situation. Not sure how it would fair for a horse who just lacks experience with a farrier, but it’s worth a conversation for sure!
I don’t know, maybe it’s because I’ve dealt with mules but I really don’t think it’s a good idea to all-or-nothing force the mule to be shod. I like neversaynever’s idea… but remember, mules are very different than horses (obviously) and they also to my knowledge, take very different cc amounts than horses.
I’ve been known to sedate a horse or two that needed it for a farrier (w/ owner and farrier permission) and I can see how it would be beneficial here, but you cannot strong-arm a mule into anything without it never letting you touch it again. They are nowhere NEAR as forgiving as horses. Nowhere.
Has the farrier tried yet? Or is the recommendation just based on a phone conversation? What I might consider “rearing” and “I want my foot back” my farrier might not be concerned and would consider it perfectly acceptable for an equine “new” to trimming.
I think having the vet come at the same time might be the best solution. Then the farrier can see what he can/cannot do and the vet can sedate as necessary. Maybe also mention to the farrier that you understand it may take longer than normal and are willing to compensate appropriately. That way he/she plans their day properly to give you/the mule/the vet enough time.
For the situation you describe, where it sounds like the feet REALLY need to be done, I’d just schedule the vet and farrier, knock the mule out/lay him down, and get the feet done as perfectly imperfectly as can be done like that, so you have more time to get some more desensitization and training done. Of course, talk to each of them about that to make sure the farrier is ok with it.
No farrier I know will touch an animal under the influence of Ace - when it works, sure, it’s great, but if a horse startles out of it he’s usually WAY worse than if not drugged at all.
I think this is the best approach if it must be done. Even when under sedation that mule is probably going to fight you and WILL remember every second of it for the next time, and remember everyone involved too.
Then you have 8 weeks to really work on handling those feet and the farrier can take his time with the mule from then on.
This might be a situation where it’s ideal to have the vet present at the farrier visit, they can give the initial dose based on their best guess, and then re-dose if need be. I had a horse who was so weird with tranqs–sometimes she would take a pony dose and be unconscious, other times she would take 3 regular sized doses and still be fairly awake, so it’s certainly not an exact science.
I’m at about the same stage where you are, kcruff.
I have a mini mule (about 33 inches tall) that has come a long way in the three months I’ve had him, but is not ready for the farrier yet. His hooves REALLY need to be trimmed. His former owner told me that he just snubbed the mule up and got it done, but that’s really what the problem is now. He’s incredibly defensive over any touching of legs and feet and my farrier and I agree that we don’t want to snub him up. We’d rather get him to understand that farriers are OK.
It was my farrier that suggested the dorm gel and my veterinarian has approved it. I’ve yet to get it from the clinic because I’m really not sure how the blazing h-e-double toothpicks I’m going to get it under my little pal’s tongue! He’s trying to be a good boy but he’s full of past experiences that make him distrustful.
If I could have my farrier out every week to do more meet and greets I’d do that, but it’s not financially possible to have her travel down here for that. She’s fabulous, but I can’t expect it of her, nor could I pay her the amount it would take to make it worth her while.
Edited to add: My vet doesn’t even want to try give a shot to him yet so that’s out or I’d want to give that a try.
Add my farrier to the list as well. He will work on horses that are sedated, but that is not his drug of choice for farrier work. I guess it only takes one horse becoming explosive to decide it’s not worth trying again.
I would also suggest clicker training. We adopted a young donkey who had been severely beaten and abused in his past. For farrier trims we do him in his stall where he feels safest and I hold him. If your guy gets nervous in small spaces why not trim him outside? When I first started picking his feet he would back up to the point he would fall down if I didn’t drop his foot. He quickly learned that he gets a treat after every foot if he doesn’t move.
Introduce the clicker by clicking and treating. That way he associates the noise of the click with getting treats. Then have someone pick his hooves/handle his hooves while you hold him. I would constantly click and reward as he stands there nicely. If he gets his foot down pick it up again and reward. Give him a “jackpot” and a small break after every foot.
Donkeys and mules are extremely smart - he should pick this up in just a few days. Cheerios are great to use as a small treat and they love them. It takes our farrier about 5 minutes to trim our donkey. I’m sure it will take a little longer the first time but is still a fairly fast job.
