Get a new farrier
Good answer! Keep shopping until you find a farrier who does not mind being kicked and stomped and jerked on by an uneducated brat of a horse, or who thinks $40 is adequate compensation for a hour and a half of soft-soaping said brat. Excellent odds that there are loads of competent farriers who should be trusted with the future development of your youngsterās growing bones who are dying to work under those conditions when they could be making $100-200/hour shoeing well-behaved adult horses.
Jennifer
Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback!
Still curious to hear what others think of the gelā¦I had no idea it existed until this thread, lol!
I actually love my farrierā¦he shod Oliverās mother a few years back, we lost touch, I had a few interim farriers, and now we are back to the original. He is fantastic with the babies. It was my choice to stop, after things deteriorated. He was game to continue.
Last time he was trimmed was out in a big field with 15 babies, under slight sedation, and a nose twitch. And it was a fight. This time, we tried no sedation, in a stall, with a nose twitch. (my fault, I totally forgot we drugged him last time) My farrier was willing to keep going, but oliver was just being a total ass and bum-rushing both of us. (and Im small ā barely 5ā1") He struck out a few times, and I got him settled, but it was when he started going up and lunging forward that we decided to call it quits. At that point, he was already wound up and a hot mess, so no point in pushing the issue. With the three of us in a stall, someone was bound to get hurt. We couldve gotten lucky and finished the job, but at what cost? We will return to the matter later this week, with sedation.
I donāt know if this will help you but I have a little guy who went through a faze where he didnāt want the farrier to have his foot. I was fine but the stranger wasnāt. I found a patient ferrier and made sure it was a short time on each foot. And we tried a couple weeks apart. Plus he got a food reward at the end of each foot. We didnāt let it turn into a fight but keep the time super short. We only had to do a couple sessions like that and it was over. Plus in-between I taught him to pick up his feet on a vocal command, made a game out of it. At three, I can just ask him and he lifts his foot for the ferrier. Sedating isnāt the end of the world but it might be a training opportunity that will help with other activities that require trust.
Third Charm, my farrier husband loved your post.
No farrier can take the chance that an ill-behaved horse (young or adult) will hurt him. He used to shoe racing-fit TB colts on layup (usually extended stall rest post surgery). They were TQāed if necessary and some were STILL were bouncing off the walls.
Most farriers donāt have disability insurance. If they get hurt seriously enough they cannot work, bills still have to be paid. Whoās going to pay them? Health insurance costs more than our mortgage - but we consider it necessary for DH to have health insurance. Lots of farriers donāt even have health insurance.
To the poster that suggested when kiddo is being naughty, the PATIENT farrier would wait while you took kiddo outside and made him move, move, moveā¦ DH is patient, but he has other clients and a schedule to adhere to and cannot wait around for you to train your kiddo while heās there to trim. Unless you schedule your appointment for two hours, and reimburse him appropriatelyā¦then thereās a chance he might work on your horse.
Itās not the farrierās job to train your horse.
ETA: Regarding the Dorm gel, it is absolutely essential to administer the proper dose for your horseās weight. DH shod a horse that was under-dosed and it was as if the horse was not sedated at all.
There is a warning on the package that gloves must be worn when administering the Dorm gel. Weāve heard from other farriers that if you (or the farrier) has a cut on your hand/fingers - and the horse gets some drool on your hand - you could end up in pretty serious trouble.
[QUOTE=ThirdCharm;6606582]
Good answer! Keep shopping until you find a farrier who does not mind being kicked and stomped and jerked on by an uneducated brat of a horse, or who thinks $40 is adequate compensation for a hour and a half of soft-soaping said brat. Excellent odds that there are loads of competent farriers who should be trusted with the future development of your youngsterās growing bones who are dying to work under those conditions when they could be making $100-200/hour shoeing well-behaved adult horses.
Jennifer[/QUOTE]
It seems wrong to me to call an untrained horse a brat. It is not fair to the horse and IMO the wrong approach. I do not believe that horses should be dangerous, but finding a ferrier that is patient with the learning process is not a bad thing. Not all of them are. I found one that is brilliant, she is not in harms way but is patient with them fussing a bit.
I agree that the training should be done ahead of time or the ferrier should be warned ahead of time and given the choice.
Hate to be critical here, but I just canāt imagine tranqing one of my yearlings for the farrierā¦I canāt imagine one of my yearlings being that bad for the farrier 
That being said, whether it is a warmblood foal or a pony foal, our farrier does them for the first time at three months of age. Of course, no real trimming is actually doneā¦just taking off a little here and there, but itās all part of the learning process and Iām glad to pay the $30 for the experience! :yes: Then weāll often do a good trim at 5 months and I get them done every two months after that and less through the winter months.
Our foals are also pasture raised and outside 24/7. For the most part, unless they are lucky enough to attend a few shows, after the initial few weeks of handling and halter breaking, I often donāt halter and handle them unless Iām deworming, vaccinating, etc. and I have yet to ever have one bad enough that I was worried for the farrier.
As a few others have mentioned, it really all comes down to proper foal training and putting the time into them. And despite what some may say, it doesnāt have to be an every day commitment. I have to say though, if I waited to trim them for the first time until 7 months old and hadnāt really done any leg or feet handling before that, I would not be surprised to have a badly behaved foal. You just gotta learn to put a bit more time in at the beginning next time. They are impressionable and learn quickly. We always try and have good first time experiencesā¦that is key with a foal! :yes:
If heās not gelded yetā¦that will help too! 
If a young horse has to be tranquilized, a big red flag that kiddo has not been handled enough or appropriately.
Tarynls ā I was the one suggesting moving that youngster around. I would NEVER expect a farrier who has a timetable and a business to run to wait for that. Never had to with my own homebreds, but got love him ā he DID with an unhandled, frightened 3 year old rescue he talked me into saving. Different storyā¦:lol:
IMO ā and I am a stickler about thisā¦all of those who have horses, no matter the age or the background have a responsibility to make that horse safe for those who have to work under them (farriers), treat them (vets) or be on top of them (riders). It is not their job to train our horses.
They are in very high risk situations and a fractious horse can cause them their livlihoods. Just be cause an owner deems their horse ādoesnāt like itā is no excuse. Unless the horse it truly phobic from repeated abuse to a specific stimulus, there is no excuse to make a pro pay for poor or non-effective training. Okay rant overā¦
sid - If your farrier talked you into taking on an unhandled, frightened rescueā¦ he knew what he was getting into! Kudos to you for taking the horse in.
As you mentioned, as horse owners, it is essential that we take responsibility for our horsesā behavior for the sake of others. Heck, my own horse used to require TQ for shoeing. We just decreased the dose each time he was shod and all is fine now.
Once again, thanks for all the input.
Obviously, if things were different, I wouldāve loved to get my hand on Oliver from day one. But, that is not the case. I bought him as a feral yearling, so any progress, is progress! Since I cannot go back and re-do his early education, I am just looking to move forward in the best, and safest way possible.
Oh, and he is gelded.
As I stated earlier, I am working with him on a daily basis, but he is an on-going process. He stands for me and picks his feet up calmly (and holds them), so I figured he was ready to give it a go. Apparently not, which is why I want to take any stress or anxiety out of the next try. I do not want to have two bad farrier experiences in a row, hence the idea of using a mild sedative.
I am just looking for some advice as to how I can move forward. And while I appreciate the stories, there is no way I can go back to day one.
Noā¦you can never go back. You have what is right in front of you. That makes it simpler really to modify the feral behaviour and build trust. But it requires a real time committment.
That means you have to double-up on the time you spend āmakingā him now. Time intensive, but well worth the effort.
Clearly in your situation, sedation may be in order, but were I you, Iād work my butt off getting this little kid totally desensitized and trusting so you donāt have to worry about that again or possibly put your farrier in harmās way.
Good luck to you. 
Iād also recommend handling him around strangers. He may be doing well for you but hasnāt transferred that trust to a complete stranger. Feral horses (even newborn babies) can be this way.
Expose him to everything and everyone you can between visits and Iāll bet it will be a big help for the next trim.
Alsoā¦be sure to trim in an environment that he is used to since he is/was feral. That will also help alot.
[QUOTE=alliemare;6606704]
ā¦As I stated earlier, I am working with him on a daily basis, but he is an on-going process. He stands for me and picks his feet up calmly (and holds them), so I figured he was ready to give it a go. Apparently not, which is why I want to take any stress or anxiety out of the next try. I do not want to have two bad farrier experiences in a row, hence the idea of using a mild sedativeā¦[/QUOTE]
One thing to try - Oliver may let you hold his feet up, but will he let you put his foot between your knees the way a farrier would when trimming? That could be something to work on.
The other thing - Whether itās you or your vet that administers the sedation, we find itās best if the horse is in his usual environment, nothing unusual going on, inject the sedation, wait 20 min or so (if IM), then bring him in & start working on him. Let the drugs relax him before anything unusual (to him) starts going on.
If he gets excited / anxious, then you sedate him, chances are his body (adrenaline response?) will completely override the sedation.
Also, you might want to see if your farrier will lend you an old shirt heās worn while working or something that smells like a farrier - burnt hoof & all. If you wear it, or rub it all over Oliver - neck, chest, shoulders, bodyā¦ That could help desensitize Oliver to the way farriers usually smell. I canāt tell you how many T-shirts weāve given away for this purposeā¦ but it works. DH keeps extra shirts in his truck just in case.
Best of luck to you.
Yepā¦ farriers can smell funny to a greenie.:lol:
The smart ones know the smell of burning horse parts (hoof) may not be a good thing.:winkgrin:
Desensitize early and often.
I strongly disagree with those who are implying that using a small amount of sedative is somehow āshortcut trainingā ā even if you HAVE been handling their feet regularly. And my farrier agrees. Itās simply creating a non-stressful experience with getting their feet trimmed by a stranger. After a few times, the farrier is a non-issue. No twitches, no lip chains, no āmoving their feetā is ever necessary. Theyāre relaxed without the sedation. The horse obviously recalls the smell of the farrier and the routine, and knows that death is not imminent! My farrier is a very good horseman and knows how to handle horses of all ages. But I also KNOW he appreciates having the youngsters calmed before trimming. He also returns all my phone calls and shows up on time. (Hint);):lol:
I donāt believe one has to drug/sedate a horse or baby that has been living in typical horse management environment.
To me that, shows big holes in early habituation in training, IMO.
Then, Iām āold schoolāā¦donāt look for chemical help when acceptance be can taught earlyā¦nor twitches, etc. either.
Easier for sure. But easier is not always better for the long term in creating āunderstandingā and trust that must be taught early on.
Sedation is a last resort, not the first
But then, Iām all about teaching very early.
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;6606897]
I strongly disagree with those who are implying that using a small amount of sedative is somehow āshortcut trainingā ā even if you HAVE been handling their feet regularly. [/QUOTE]
Klimkeās new training scale
Sedation, Losgelassenheit, Rhythm, Contact, Schwung ā¦
But seriously, there is some holes in the relationship with the horse at that point. Which happens but instead of taking the shortcut why not take use it as a training opportunity? Teach the horse how to work through his fear instead. That alone is a valuable lesson as you canāt keep drugging him every time he reacts to something newā¦
Tranquilizers are not without risks. Thereās a reason they are under veterinary control in most countries:
- Kathy has already referenced the penile retractor muscle risks with Acepromazine and other phenothiazine tranquilizers.
- Xylazine hydrochloride can elicit a rapid and unpredictable kick reflex. Stimulation for the kick can be minimal.
- Xylazine hydrochloride can be fatal for humans if ingested (e.g. accidental needle stick or oral/mucous membrane contact).
- Romifidine hydrochloride (Sedivet) also has the same kick reflex seen with Xylazine.
- Rofimidine hydrochloride carries most of the same risks to humans that Xylazine carries. Here is the "advice to doctors" provided by the NOAH compendium: "[i]Romifidine is an alpha2-adrenoreceptor agonist, symptoms after absorption may involve clinical effects including dose-dependent sedation, respiratory depression, bradycardia, hypotension, a dry mouth, and hyperglycaemia. Ventricular arrhythmias have also been reported. Respiratory and haemodynamic symptoms should be treated symptomatically.[/i]"
Iām going through something like this now- but with a 16.2 mare. You canāt win by fighting- give him a bit of sedation and a positive experience.
Iām not sure why people are criticizing you for something that was out of your control.
Just to elaborate a bit on Josā post as many may not know that the drug they are using is a ābrandā name, as opposed to what is actually IN the drug.
Sedivet, Romidys and Rimidys are ALL romifidine hydrochloride
RompunĀ® (Bayer), GeminiĀ® (Butler), AnaSedĀ® (Lloyd) and SedazineĀ® (Fort Dodge) are ALL xylazine
Dormosedan is detomodine.
Acepromazine Maleatem and PromAce are both Acepromazine.
All of the above drugs will have different brand names depending on what country you are in as well - I listed above the common names in North America.
So, before using whatever drug you may think will be the best choice, read what is actually IN that particular drug.
And that spontaneous ākickā reaction that might come with the use of xylazine? It is absolutely incredibly quick and unexpected. There is NO warning. None. Gives one a WHOLE new appreciation for just how powerful and quick it is once youāve seen it happen. It definitely would not be my drug of choice of working with a recalcitrant youngsterās feet, especially after seeing that kick response in action.
Good luck!
