Sedation for a yearling that hates the farrier...

[alliekat]

[QUOTE=Fairview Horse Center;6606185]
I agree.

Youngsters have a VERY short memory. If YOU have been picking up all four feet, and holding them for a bit with no problem, then while you farrier waits, go thru your routine on all four. Then and only then ask the farrier to approach. Most will be perfect at that point.

I am not a fan of sedating for a behavior issue. I sedate/twitch for pain issues.

For behavior issues, I much prefer to use other tools - nose in a corner, schooling them to a nose/lip chain with their butt in a corner if they are blowing past/over you.

Dangerous behavior is just not acceptable.

For hind legs, run a long, thick cotton rope around the leg, and allow it to drop to around the pastern. Then with the horse’s nose in a corner, or up to a wall, pick the leg up with just holding both ends of the rope, out of the way of a kick.

Once they quit fussing, and realize they have to stand, and are ok, then let them put their leg back down. Repeat daily, and do the same for the farrier the next time.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=sid;6606460]Sounds that you need to do a lot of work with this kiddo, in hand.

I have always raised my babies out in a field situation, but spent a ton of time handling them, picking up feet, etc. - out in the field – judiciously desensitizing to these things that will be a part of their lives. I don’t want them to be behaviourly problematic for the vet, farrier or anyone else for that matter.

Considering his raising, I would recommend working with him at least 2 x day for now – not very long, but just to get the compliance – until he habituates to the necessary handling.

Little bit at a time is fine. It builds upon itself.

Ditto not using Ace as a drug of choice. Dormosedan, but a light dose lest he feels he will fall over, and create even more insecurity having to “lose a leg”.

I’d spend a ton of time with him to teach him trusting compliance so you don’t need to resort to sedation again.[/QUOTE]

I agree! All of our foals live out in a herd situation 24/7 weather permitting, which in NC is almost year round aside from the occasional lightning storm and we don’t have this kind of issue with any of ours (yet at least). Continue building the trust with him and he will come around. Drugs for us are a very last resort. I have had many horses come to me that can only be clipped with drugs and some can be turned around in as little as 20 minutes with the right approach.
A willing and patient farrier is worth their weigh in gold and never more so than in this situation. We have one like this right now. Since babies and young horses are our farms primary focus we need someone who is patient and willing to take a few extra minutes to ensure our have a good experience. Those few extra minutes will pay of ten fold each month he returns and the horse remembered he was compassionate with them. Everyone is right, it is not the farrier (or vets) job to train them but they do play an important role in the foundation we are laying on our horses here. I feel like we all are a team. In the end, I make sure I compensate our farrier for any extra time he spends with ones that come to us and have some trust issues. For example we had one TB 2 year old that had a horrible experience with a farrier and she didn’t trust anyone to even touch her back legs. Even the front ones were difficult. It took me weeks to let me do it without her looking fearful and waiting for something bad to happen. When I felt she was ready, I had the farrrier out and she resorted back to a fearful baby. I told my farrier not to do her that day as I would continue her education and have him do her again on his next trip out. He said he wanted to work with her. I was thrilled that it was that important to not only build his own trust with her, but that he wanted to have a chance to start to address her feet which had been able to diminish due to not being done. After 5 minutes she allowed him to pick up her front feet without standing there shaking. I was watching her extend her first bit of trust to someone else for the first time in months. It was amazing. He trimmed her first foot and then put her back in her stall. He trimmed someone else right in front of her while she watched. Then brought her back out. This time it took only 3 minutes for her to lift the other leg without melting down and that one was able to be trimmed also. Back to the stall he put her. After another horse was done he brought her back and attempted to do the back feet. She again was not sure so he did what another poster mentions and got a big cotton lead rope and put it around her back leg and in just a few minutes was able to trim her back leg. Again back to the stall for a rest and to think about what had just happened. In the end he was able to trim her and she had a great experience. Yes it took longer than if we would have resorted to using drugs first but she was able to really think about and remember the experience, which for me was very important lesson. I made sure to compensate my farrier very well, because without him it would not have been possible. Now I have a mare that got her first set of shoes and was a champ for the whole thing. She was even falling asleep at one point.
I am not against the use of drugs, but it would have to be as a very last resort but I understand not everyone has access to such a caring, patient and knowledgeable farrier. Trust me, we had to kiss and kick out a lot of frogs over the years! If you have an experienced friend that can come out and pretend with your foal, it may help too.
I wish you the best of luck with yours. It just reminds me how important what we do with our babies really is. I just got an update from a weanling we bred that is now at her new home. She told me how impressed her farrier was with how well the filly stood to be trimmed. I love getting that kind of feed back.
On a side note, anyone that is looking for a wonderful farrier in the NC and surrounding areas, I can’t begin to recommend Stephen Bright Jr. of Progressive Farrier Services enough!!! I just adore him and couldn’t have turned around the one mare without him!

[ise]

I do hope people using the Dromosedan are using gloves as it can be absorbed into your system.

And as far as using a twitch. We find it’s better to just put the chain on the gum if they really are being boogers. Sometimes the boys cop attitude and we have a mantra on our farm - horses/ponies are injured or die before people. Sounds a bit harsh but we can survive with them but they can’t survive with us.!

As I said we have used the Quietex and it has taken the edge off some of the ones who might be a bit of a challenge. I have a great farrier who is great with the foals and youngsters.

[sid]

@ise@ssl;6607349

I have a great farrier who is great with the foals and youngsters.

Yes. That is critical. One of my farriers, who is outstanding, really doesn’t like working on the younger ones anymore (bad back from years of shoeing etc.) . He knows they will feel his tension, so he recommended a farrier that is really good with the babies. Younger fellow with uber patience, and who understands how important that the experience is non-threatening and, thus, no big whoop.

This has worked well for me.

[SamWerner]

@alliekat;6607150

I agree! All of our foals live out in a herd situation 24/7 weather permitting, which in NC is almost year round aside from the occasional lightning storm and we don’t have this kind of issue with any of ours (yet at least). Continue building the trust with him and he will come around. Drugs for us are a very last resort. I have had many horses come to me that can only be clipped with drugs and some can be turned around in as little as 20 minutes with the right approach.

I can 2nd what alliekat has said…as she came down to Florida to visit some friends and was able to stop by my barn to visit my horses and I. Let me tell you what a miracle it was!! Before Allie visited, I had to lightly drug my 2 year old to come near his face and legs with clippers. After 20 minutes, she was clipping his coronet bands, ears, muzzle, and bridle path with only a little bit of naughtiness of his part :). She showed me that the right approach can make the world of difference. If you make things a step by step process, and work slowly and comfortably, they usually come around. I was in shock, but am now a believer that these things that scare the babies can be done without sedation with a little bit of patience!!

[vandenbrink]

For the nervous ones, I like to do them close to the herd or right in the herd. They take a lot longer, and I do them myself, one foot at a time. With a farrier, I wouldn’t hesitate to sedate them…and have done so to be able to do all 4 feet at once without them having a melt down. I learned to do some of those myself…don’t want to subject my farrier to the abuse:) It is my job to train them. I also like to do them in a fairly big open space. I learned this from my old farrier who was very good with training babies. I use a 25-30 foot area a small round pen, or a blocked off run in shed…something like that. They can’t go anywhere, but you can back them up and spin them around as needed. I find that helps get the respect of the pushy ones without having to hit, shank, use lip chains etc. You get pushy…I make you work…back them up…make them spin around…“you push on me, I’ll push you around”. It works like a charm and teaches them respect without having to use any kind of gadgets, chains, twitches then can result in rather explosive behavior which is especially scary in enclosed areas.