Seeking Advice: Helping Student with ADHD Struggling with Visual-Spatial Riding Skills

[Kirikou]

Hi all,

I’m hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here: I have a youth student (pre-teen aged) with ADHD who has been riding for over six years and seems genuinely passionate about it. She’s however been struggling persistently with posting diagonals and identifying/correcting canter leads. She fully “understands” the theory (as in she can explain what’s supposed to happen and when) but in practice, it just isn’t connecting.

Her family has been working with her at home too, reinforcing “rise and fall with the leg on the wall,” and I’ve tried every of my tricks (duct tape on the pony’s shoulders, counting rhythm, etc).
She also struggles with spatial awareness in the arena: “navigating” a dressage test pattern or a simple ground pole course is tough for her, especially judging distances, preparing turns, and orienting herself in the space.

From what I’ve been reading about ADHD, it sounds possible these difficulties could be related to how her brain processes visual-spatial information. But I am having a hard time finding resources specific to riding.

Has anyone here worked with riders like this? What approaches or adaptations have helped? Are there any books, articles, or resources you’d recommend for instructors working with youth riders dealing with visual-spatial processing differences?
She’s a dedicated, sweet, and hard-working kid, and I’d really like to help her feel more confident in her riding.
Thanks in advance for any advice or resources you can share!

[Scribbler]

@Kirikou

Hi all,

I’m hoping to tap into the collective wisdom here: I have a youth student (pre-teen aged) with ADHD who has been riding for over six years and seems genuinely passionate about it. She’s however been struggling persistently with posting diagonals and identifying/correcting canter leads. She fully “understands” the theory (as in she can explain what’s supposed to happen and when) but in practice, it just isn’t connecting.

Her family has been working with her at home too, reinforcing “rise and fall with the leg on the wall,” and I’ve tried every of my tricks (duct tape on the pony’s shoulders, counting rhythm, etc).
She also struggles with spatial awareness in the arena: “navigating” a dressage test pattern or a simple ground pole course is tough for her, especially judging distances, preparing turns, and orienting herself in the space.

From what I’ve been reading about ADHD, it sounds possible these difficulties could be related to how her brain processes visual-spatial information. But I am having a hard time finding resources specific to riding.

Has anyone here worked with riders like this? What approaches or adaptations have helped? Are there any books, articles, or resources you’d recommend for instructors working with youth riders dealing with visual-spatial processing differences?
She’s a dedicated, sweet, and hard-working kid, and I’d really like to help her feel more confident in her riding.
Thanks in advance for any advice or resources you can share!

I wonder if this is ADHD per se, or a seperate set of spatial perception issues? If she has a care provider monitoring her issues, can they investigate?

What is her spatial perception like off the horse? Can she trot a pattern on foot? Can she do up girths and bridles easily? How is she at other sports? Can she toss a ball, hit a ball with a racket, learn dance steps?

I suppose my questions are:

1. Is the spatial orientation problem present only in motion, or in motion and sedentary activity? Is it related only to distance, or is it present in both distance and close up activity?

2. Does this issue impede other sports activities? Conversely, is riding her only activity? Lots of children these days are very sedentary and don’t get the outdoor play movement needed to build proprioception at speed.

3. Is this issue about anxiety or difficulty processing spoken instructions in real time? If so, does she have non supervised riding practice time where she can try out things on her own time?

[FjordBCRF]

@Scribbler has made some good comments.

I’m AuDHD, and while I don’t remember struggling with posting or anything horse related, my brain struggles with a lot of other stuff. I vividly remember in 1st grade being given 5 sentences that told a story when ordered correctly, but they were not in order. I could not for the life of me, get the concept of what I was supposed to be doing. I just kept reordering them and hoping I got them in the right order. I’ll ask my mom if she remembers what helped me connect those dots, because once I got it, I GOT IT and it seemed so silly how hard it was. And it was a very simple ask for most kids.

[Kirikou]

Thank you @Scribbler for these thoughtful questions and insights!

1. The spatial difficulties seem mostly related to motion. She can’t quite “see” the canter lead or how the horse’s shoulder is moving, although she handles tacking up well.
2. She is active outside riding (playing basketball and cheerleading) but I’m unsure about her “proficiency” in these (or how “competitive” those are at her age). From what I’ve seen when we included team activities with a ball in riding lesson, she struggled, often focusing just on catching the ball rather than teammates/strategy/or the goal.
3. That’s a really going point about anxiety. I worry that “drilling” something she doesn’t grasp yet might increase anxiety rather than help (+ make horses not “fun” anymore). She rides at home as well but not unsupervised.

@FjordBCRF, thank you for sharing your personal experience. Hearing that sometimes the “missing piece” just takes time to click, and then everything falls into place, gives me hope. If your Mum remembers any particular methods that helped you connect those dots, I’d be grateful to hear them!

Thank you both!

[FjordBCRF]

Ok! She said she we spent a lot of time at home doing practice stories about stuff I was really interested in; which at that time was our pets

I’m not sure how you could extrapolate that to the posting, but for me, making things meaningful and relevant always helped a lot. I was a big “why” kid, not to be defiant, but because it didn’t really make sense otherwise. I think I’ve always liked things to make sense.

[McGurk]

My hints from my teaching experience -

Three approaches about diagonals. First, up the color coding game. Put colored tape right along the blade of the horse’s shoulder. When I was a pre-teen, I literally couldn’t see the shoulder move. I had no idea what people were talking about. I’d look down and then fake it. Put different colored tape on both shoulders (red for right, whatever color for left, also put it on her hands (I’ve used different colored gloves) and on the horse’s front hooves. Colored bell boots if you have them. If that doesn’t help, forget about her seeing the diagonals from the horse and teach her to feel them instead.

Here’s the easiest way to teach someone to feel diagonals: First teach them to feel when the inside hind pushes off at the walk. Give them the hint that when they feel their seat rise on the inside, that’s when the inside hind pushes off. Get her to say “Now” every time she feels it. Then get her to count all the footfalls, so she’s saying “Now, two, three, four, Now, two, three, four” in rhythm with the walk. Once she’s got that, try it at the posting trot, having her count “Now, two, now, two, now, two.” Then tell her to post on the now and sit on the two. (This is also great for developing feel and a following seat.)

Finally, you can try what worked with me as a junior. I am VERY right side dominant and found that I if I didn’t think about it, I would always end up posting to the right shoulder. So going to the left, I always just sat an extra beat.

For learning figures, patterns and courses, get a small white board and dry erase markers and keep them in the ring with you. DRAW the figure, pattern or course for her, then let her hold the white board and trace it with her finger. It’s even better it you have dressage letters around the ring and on the white board, and have obvious landmarks (Barn, road, woods, etc) drawn on the white board. When ever possible, describe where you want her to go using landmarks: for some people “Go out to the rail and take the right rein.” is gobbledygook. Instead say “Head for the E marker, then turn toward the barn.”

Hope that helps!

[clanter]

Are they sure she is not dyslexic?

I am and even in the Army they would not let me march in any parade of troops since there was no way I could remain in cadence.

AI’s thoughts

Individuals with dyslexia may struggle with spatial relationships, including identifying left and right, which can impact various daily tasks and learning situations. This difficulty is often linked to challenges in spatial reasoning and processing visual information

[FitToBeTied]

I taught math and had many ADHD students. Spatial issues were not usually an issue for ADHD students. in fact they were usually good at geometry. One particularly severe ADHD student was a state champion gymnast.

So a couple of questions.

1. Is she on medications for the ADHD and are they onboard when she takes lessons?
2. Is she the only rider in the ring? If not, suggest individual lessons. I would also say, not too many instructions at one time. Pick one thing out and focus on that.

Another student I had had a processing deficiency. She just learned slower. She was very bright it just took her longer. She passed her AP Calc exams but it took her 5 hours to complete the exam.

You might read this about spatial disorders from Columbia University.

Visual-Spatial Learning Disorder Is More Common Than Thought, Finds Study

[EADoug]

These issues ring more Sensory Processing to me, which can sometimes be associated with ADHD.

With sensory processing, you can 100% understand the concept and what is being asked, but your body and brain are not keeping up with the real time input, so you are slow to the party. She may do just fine with calling what leg is is forward at the walk, but at the trot it’s just too fast for eg.

Along with what others have offered, I’d add in some ‘cheats’ for her that are subtle enough now while learning, but will help build confidence. Counting to four out loud with the steps until good enough to count under her breath, doing a decent lean and check for two steps to really visualize the leg moving forward for a bit etc. Not things you want to do forever, but to help slow the info down and let it get processed.

I’ve struggled my whole life with this, but it was the 80s, so I was just clumsy and ‘unmotivated’ to really learn how to keep a rhythm or find a distance etc. With all my schooling now I feel like I’m constantly reading about myself and having lightbulb moments. It’s brought a lot of self-compassion and forgiveness. Like Clanter, I can’t march, clap on time, or keep a pace. I Swing dance and while everyone is clapping along on beat to the music I’m faking it as I can’t do more than 3 beats in a row.

It is so easy to get frustrated when someone doesn’t seem able to keep up or ‘get it’, and I applaud you for digging deeper and supporting rather than pushing and shaming. That kid is lucky to be learning from you.

[McGurk]

@EADoug

I applaud you for digging deeper and supporting rather than pushing and shaming. That kid is lucky to be learning from you.

THIS. Well said.

PS - I am the instructor I am because I was a terrible student. Nothing came easy, and being yelled at for what I was doing wrong never, ever helped me understand what to do correctly, it just made me stiff and defensive. Finding someone who could teach me in the way I could learn when I was 20 was such, such a gift.

[LCDR]

I recently became aware that I do not have a “mind’s eye.” Evidently 96 percent of people are able to picture and recall still and moving images internally without using vision. I am one of the 4 percent who can’t. I’m wondering if this has been the root of some of my riding challenges. I cannot picture a dressage test or a jumping course.

[Moss]

This. I had to sit on many high school and pedagogy 504 and IEP plans during my brief tenure teaching HS, and OP’s post does not sound like ASD or ADHD. There are slight issues with both, but not to this degree unless there is more severity with ASD. And in those cases, they are usually nonverbal and have other issues. Most of the students I had with ASD and/or ADHD were highly physically skilled. One was in high school theatre.
OP’s post sounds like an issue with the rider’s proprioception and something neurological. I’m obviously not diagnosing the child since I don’t know the child, but this level of severity sounds like something else.

Spatial Cognition in Children With Physical Disability; What Is the Impact of...

[Kirikou]

Thank you all so much for these thoughtful, kind replies — I really appreciate everyone taking the time to share your experiences and ideas.

• She is on meds for ADHD, and while early on we noticed they were wearing off by the end of the day when she had her lessons, that’s been adjusted and things seem more “steady” now. (Unfortunately, though, the same issues pop up at various times of day.)
• These are group lessons, but interestingly she struggles with the same things working one-on-one with family too. So while distractions definitely factor in, my guess is that there is more?

I really like the suggestions about focusing on one thing at a time and the comments about sensory processing and proprioception really clicked for me too. I’ve read those articles that were linked (thank you for sharing them!) and will do more research.

And for those of you who shared your own stories about learning with similar challenges, thank you! It’s so helpful to hear what it felt like from the rider’s perspective, and it’s a great reminder to stay patient and flexible. This kid loves ponies and loves riding, and she deserves to find her way into it.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciate the support and ideas!

[fjordmom]

I see several thoughts above that came to my mind as well - dyslexia, sensory processing disorder, even an eye focusing/synchronizing condition. Any or all of those can be present together to create the “ADHD.”

As the wife of an adult with ADHD and mom of and ADHD child, now young adult, let me share a few things our family learned over time. Yes, there are questions, yet unproven regarding heritability of ADHD.

ADHD is not an attention/focus issue. More recently it has been learned to be an executive functioning/prioritizing disorder. (Highlights every sentence in an AP history text because “it’s all important.” Aces the short answer questions tests, but take hours to organize the essay part. Thank god for an understanding teacher who was willing to accommodate that. )

The ADHD person can struggle (and become exhausted) by an inability to screen out environmental stimuli that “neurotypical” folks just don’t even notice in the first place. (Example: second grader comes home exhausted, with a headache, complaining of the teacher 3 room down yelling at her class. I never noticed this when I helped at school regularly… until I paid very close attention. Boy was it shrill at times. Child heard it all daily and would tell me exactly what was being said.)

Most ADHD individuals are highly intelligent, think out of the box, and create workarounds that noone notices until life get more complex; think competitive college, job. Many schools/teachers just focus on the excess (hyper) energy the person is trying to discharge in order to find relief from the stimulus overload. The truly god teachers (and you seem to be one) look for ways to individualize what helps the student most.

Oh, and for pre-teen girls, hormones are and extra hard whamy! That one week a month when my daughter would walk into the barn for her lesson, her instructor (a very close friend) and I would just give each other the “oh, it’s that week” look. She made the lesson very simple and often shorter to save our sanity (and show our saintly pony extra respect and love).

Hope some of this helps with understanding. Now a practical suggestion.

If your student is having trouble with diagonals and leads, sometimes it helps to close her eyes to screen out a lot of stimuli (oh, there’s’s a spider on the wall, a cat in rafters, and a sherd of paper on the ground…)

Put her on the lunge line, no reins in hands, and just let her feel the gaits. Often that works wonders. Once they have the feel, they can just momentarily close their eyes to fell if they are right and wrong, correct if needed, and ride on.

Good luck. It can be a bit of a bumpy ride at times, but often these kids are so full of empathy and wanting to do “the right thing” that they are a real joy to be around.

[Obnd]

She is lucky to have you in her corner, and you are lucky to have a student who wants to learn even though it is difficult.

When riding I struggle with learning patterns and making correctly shaped figures like circles. Once I just couldn’t understand how to make a cloverleaf pattern with two poles placed to make a cross. Even at the walk. Eventually my trainer walked next to my horse and put her hands on the reins to guide my horse through the correct pattern while I watched from the saddle. Several times.

Your patience and willingness to try different things to teach her likely means more to her than you will ever know. I know my trainer’s patience and willingness means more to me than she can ever know, even though I thank her often.

[FitToBeTied]

One thing I will add (and it applies to any student in any field) is what kind of learner are they. Despite having a degree in theoretical math, I am a visual and tactile learner.

You can talk to me until you are blue in the face and its not going to help me. When I was COO for some companies I had floor to ceiling white boards. If someone came to my office with a problem I had them draw diagrams on the board. All of my people had white boards in their offices and cubes, and I carried a dry erase marker everywhere.

When I taught calculus and higher courses, I made the students draw a picture so they could see the problem.

As far as riding goes, my dressage instructor will actually come up and move a leg, a hand or some other body part into the right position. Another I told her she couldn’t talk to me while I was jumping. She was only allowed to say “that’s it” when I had it right. It was all about feeling what was right and creating muscle memory.

So keep in mind that some of us are going to learn, no matter how much you explain it. Helping people figure out what kind of learner they are is a lifelong benefit.

[alpine1]

My ASD/ADHD child had some of these issues in learning to ride. Posting was a frustrating problem until we realized (and I know this sounds crazy!) that he thought it was about going up when the rider’s own leg was moving forward. This is why he would sometimes be on the correct diagonal and other times not but couldn’t understand how he was doing it wrong. The other big issue was “eyes up”, which was interpreted as basically looking at the ceiling. The words “chin up” worked much better.

I love the idea of using different colored tape on the horse’s shoulders. It also helps to practice posting at the walk, just to get an understanding of what it means to move with the horse’s shoulder. Also keep saying “up, down, up, down, up, down” whenever the student is trotting, so hopefully eventually it clicks. Patience is everything because everybody’s brain is different…and some of them are really different. My kid also struggles with math, measuring, tying knots, taking a bridle apart and putting it back together, and anything else that needs to be exact. People with these types of brains/issues also tend to have a lot of anxiety, because it’s not an easy world when you feel like you’re the only one who never knows what the hell is going on.

[McGurk]

Half facetiously, I want a strict injunction against teaching posting by calling “up, down, up, down” and calling beginners “up downers.”

One of the first things that I end up teaching new students is correct body mechanics in posting are forward and back, opening and closing the hip angle, rather than up and down. It’s a hard habit to break, and it’s enormously helpful to have them ride a horse that moves through it’s back and pushes them out of the tack, rather than a old schoolie who has learned not to move through their back in self defense.

Other methods I have used to teach people with learning challenges how to post: 1.) Pony them from another horse and have them mimic my posting. Works really well for younger children who can’t readily process verbal instruction but can mimic someone else’s movement. It also helps that I can dictate the precise speed of the trot. 2.) If you have a sturdy, long-backed horse, actually sit behind them. I had one kid that I actually held the outside seams of her pants and moved her forward and back while sitting behind her. That’s how she learned to canter too! It helped that I had a saintly draftX and that I was much thinner then!

[alpine1]

I get the problem with “up down”. I know a trainer who says “thrust”, but I’m not sure that works so well with little kids. It’s probably a better word to use after learning the basics of posting, when working on body mechanics

[McGurk]

I usually count “forward, back, forward, back” or “1,2,1,2”

I have explained the motion as pushing your belly button or belt buckle towards the horse’s ears.

For some adults, telling them to lift their diaphragm and push it forward works.

I also have students put two fingers right at the crease of their hip so they can feel what it’s like when the hip joint opens and closes correctly, first at the halt with me guiding them, then at the walk and trot.