Seeking information on Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP)

[CrowneDragon]

I have a question related to my previous thread. My barn has three cats: two cats with kittens and another about to give birth. A male cat (the father of the kittens) was sick for months and was just euthanized due to FIP. I am getting conflicting information regarding what can or should be done with the kittens. Is is possible to give them to new homes and not risk the health of existing household cats or that the kittens will be likely to develop FIP? At this point the plan appears to be to euthanize all cats and their kittens, which are adorable little fluff balls. This is heartbreaking, but the owner does not want to keep all of them, and after me ripping him a new one about not taking care of the cats, I don’t think he wants any cats anymore because he won’t spend a dime on them.

Facts sought. Thanks in advance.

[UlysMom]

Are any of the other cats presenting with any symptoms? FIP is infectious, but not as contagious as many may think. Though, in close quarters, living together like that, if the kittens had contact with the male cat (or his feces) they may have been infected. Once they start presenting at the extremes your other thread described, I don’t believe they are shedding as much of the virus as they were before. (Not a vet, just happened to adopt a kitten that had FIP. He was around a senior cat in our household who never developed any symptoms of the disease.)

I think the worst case scenario is of mom has it and she passed it on to the kittens before birth, but is mom showing any symptoms?

I don’t have any answers for you. I’m so sorry. I’m hoping the kittens and momma cat are ok. Either way, they shouldn’t be placed in multi-cat homes unless they have been quarantined and tested (though the test is just looking for the corona virus, which many are exposed to but never develop FIP). It’s a tricky situation, as the disease can lie latent (for lack of the correct terminology) and present later in life brought on by certain stressors. Or, they never get sick. It’s a tough spot to be in.

Hoping they all stay fat and healthy. Btw, thanks for what you did for the male. You provided him relief from his pain, when his owner wouldn’t. You’re a good person.

[Calvincrowe]

FIP is horrible, a heart-breaking disease. We got a kitten from our local humane society that developed it, and we had to put him down–there was no hope. We had 3 other cats in the household at the time. Vet told us to sterilize cat boxes, dishes, areas where the congregated (they’d all sit up on the sink in our unused bathroom and eat there). We steam cleaned the floors, and did all the stuff the vet recommended. No one else got sick, thank goodness.

[java]

http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/Pages/FIP_Web_2010.pdf

This a great article for you to review. FIP is a horrible disease and one that we don’t fully understand. There is no need to euthanize all the kittens! Most cats that are exposed to coronavirus never get sick. Coronavirus is very common and lots of cats are exposed to it without developing FIP. We think that the virus first has to mutate in an infected cat and that cat must be already genetically prone in order to develop clinical signs of FIP. It is not so much the virus itself but the cat’s immune response to the mutated virus that causes FIP. Cat’s showing signs of FIP don’t need to be isolated and cannot spread FIP to other cats. They can shed the corona virus but cannot infect another cat with 'FIP".

I hope you can save or rehome these cats !

[fordtraktor]

There are a couple of FIP sanctuaries in Michigan. I tried to get a dropped-off cat in one a few years ago but I think they could tell we would keep the darn thing. It lives with my mom now and is a lovely cat but I had the devil’s own time trying to find it a home because FIP scares everyone away. However, these kittens are in such a tough place maybe they would take them.

One downside is that FIP cats are immunocompromised. My mom’s is now a three-legged cat because of a sarcoma due to vaccine reaction. Not a cheap cat, but he is a darling. She does have another cat but we have been told FIP seems to transfer by deep bites once past the kitten stage, which is not a concern. Her vet encouraged her to add the FIP cat as he was old enough and sweet enough she was not worried. So far, so good. 3 years in, I think.

[Claddagh]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7592508]
There are a couple of FIP sanctuaries in Michigan. I tried to get a dropped-off cat in one a few years ago but I think they could tell we would keep the darn thing. It lives with my mom now and is a lovely cat but I had the devil’s own time trying to find it a home because FIP scares everyone away. However, these kittens are in such a tough place maybe they would take them.

One downside is that FIP cats are immunocompromised. My mom’s is now a three-legged cat because of a sarcoma due to vaccine reaction. Not a cheap cat, but he is a darling. She does have another cat but we have been told FIP seems to transfer by deep bites once past the kitten stage, which is not a concern. Her vet encouraged her to add the FIP cat as he was old enough and sweet enough she was not worried. So far, so good. 3 years in, I think.[/QUOTE]

I believe what you are referring to here is FIV (Feline Immunodeficiency Virus) and not FIP (Feline Infectious Peritonitis). I know FIP and FIV sound alike but they are very different. Cats can live with FIV but not for long with FIP which is, unfortunately, always fatal.

CrowneDragon - here is a link with some good information on FIP.

http://www.catvets.com/cat-owners/disease-and-conditions/fip

I’m so sorry about little Griller, and now too about all of the other cats and kittens at your barn. And I’m especially sorry that your BO is such a heartless SOB. Not all of those cats need to be euthanized since it is in no way a given that they are all FIP positive. I hope that something can be done to spare the healthy ones. And I hope that no future cats make the mistake of picking this BO’s barn for a home!

[fordtraktor]

So sorry, I am am idiot. I do mean FIV. In my pre-coffee state I didn’t realize this was different, I apologize, CrowneDragon.

[Claddagh]

Not an idiot at all! Those two initial names are easily confused.

I didn’t have time to write this earlier, but wanted to say kudos to your Mom for taking such good care of her FIV kitty. So glad that he is continuing to do well.

[SquishTheBunny]

No need to euthanize. 95% of the time cats with FIV lead nomal lives.

I have one, who was positive when tested at age 2, he is now 14. He lives with 3 other cats, who were all negative on their last check.

It is spread by saliva to blood contact generally.

Indoor homes are impotant, because you want to try to minimize the spread of it.

FIV cats are not necessarily more pone to contracting infections, but rather require support if they do get them. However it doesn’t mean they are sickly. My cat has has never been ill from it. You just have to be aware so you can treat them with antibiotics early if they do get a wound or upper respiratory.

I bet if the entire cat population of north America was tested, there would be a LOT of FIV+ cats that people don’t even know about. Its not routine to test them generally, as it doesn’t often make a difference in their actual health status.

[CrowneDragon]

Thanks for the information, everyone. Unfortunately these cats were living with a cat which had FIP, not FIV. It is tough to figure out the responsible thing to do and balance that with the options being constrained by an owner who doesn’t want to spend any money on the cats. Very frustrating.

[alto]

[QUOTE=CrowneDragon;7592890]
Thanks for the information, everyone. Unfortunately these cats were living with a cat which had FIP, not FIV. It is tough to figure out the responsible thing to do and balance that with the options being constrained by an owner who doesn’t want to spend any money on the cats. Very frustrating.[/QUOTE]

Based upon rescue cat experience, it’s unlikely that any cat already living in the homes to which these kittens are adopted into will develop FIP - sadly the same cannot be said of rescue kittens that come out of FIP environments (lack of nutrition (health), suppressed or underdeveloped immune systems may be factors) BUT it is also not a given that these kittens or even a specific percentage of these kittens will develop FIP.
I’d not consider the exposure a reason to euthanize.
It is useful information for adoptive homes.

Note that our experiences were limited to kittens adopted into private homes of 2-4 cats, not catteries … thinking about this article.

(dislaimer: I live in a city in which feral colonies are managed & fed, not destroyed.
If you do pursue euthanasia please ensure that it is done individually with prior sedation)

[SquishTheBunny]

Euthanizing a cat because a littermate had FIP isn’t necessary. Its a small percentage of cats that develop FIP. FIP itself isn’t contagious, its a mutation of a virus (corona) that has a prevalence rate of (depending on the source and the area) 30 - 95%. So even your healthy happy indoor cat, has a very good chance that they have the coronavirus.

A very small percentage of coronavirus + cats will mutate into having FIP. Similar to a very small percent of humane who are diagnosed with cancer after having a virus. Sometimes the body does weird things that we just cant understand…but the majority of the time, the virus stays stable and they go onto living normal lives.

If they are ill, that’s one thing, but if they are not then there is no need to euthanize as the chance is very high that they will never get it. They will not pass “FIP” onto another cat, and any households with more than 3 cats has a 75% chance their cats are already expsed to the coronavirus.

[SquishTheBunny]

Euthanizing a cat because a littermate had FIP isn’t necessary. Its a small percentage of cats that develop FIP. FIP itself isn’t contagious, its a mutation of a virus (corona) that has a prevalence rate of (depending on the source and the area) 30 - 95%. So even your healthy happy indoor cat, has a very good chance that they have the coronavirus.

A very small percentage of coronavirus + cats will mutate into having FIP. Similar to a very small percent of humane who are diagnosed with cancer after having a virus. Sometimes the body does weird things that we just cant understand…but the majority of the time, the virus stays stable and they go onto living normal lives.

If they are ill, that’s one thing, but if they are not then there is no need to euthanize as the chance is very high that they will never get it. They will not pass “FIP” onto another cat, and any households with more than 3 cats has a 75% chance their cats are already expsed to the coronavirus.

[Cherry]

I read the article provided by java and know less than before I read it. We can send men to the moon but can’t get a handle on FIP?

I say rehome the kittens with full disclosure. Perhaps a group of crazy cat ladies would be willing to help you. Maybe they would also be willing to help get those mom cats spayed as well! There are still good people out there–I’m hoping you will be able to find help. Just call around to your local vet clinics, they will know of someone who can help.

[java]

Sorry, I did not mean to cause more confusion by posting the article on FIP. It is a very in depth article written by experts in the field but it could be summarized that we just don’t have an answer on this one. FIP is one of the most frustrating feline conditions to deal with. There is no way to definitively diagnose it when the patient is alive, there is no known effective cure or treatment and there is no vaccine to prevent it. Imagine how easy it is to tell a client that their cat may have FIP but unfortunately there is no test or treatment that has been shown to be useful. Can’t diagnose it, can’t treat it, can’t prevent it. For this discussion the main point is that the disease itself is not contagious and so no kittens need to be euthanized!

[Coyoteco]

I see absolutely no reason to consider euthanizing cats because a littermate had FIP. At one time, we ended up with two litters of abandoned kittens. We raised them together from a very, very young age. Of the seven, one died of FIP at about 1.5 years. None of the others ever had it even though they had continued to live together all of their lives, shared food, water and litter boxes. In your situation, it’s not even a littermate who died. I did go into a bit of a panic at the time, but it was fine except the loss of the one very sweet girl.

eta - these kittens were never particularly healthy. They were part of a feral colony that existed when I moved here. As older adults, they were healthy, but not for a few years. So, even if your kittens aren’t healthy, I’d still not assume FIP will be a problem.

[HelloAgain]

There is no reason to euthanize the kittens. However they must be rehomed with full disclosure. closely related individuals share a genetic predisposition to “break” FIP. This is assuming you have knowledge above a guess that the deceased tom is actually their father. The genetic link is being studied at UC Davis vet school (FIP is much more common in certain purebred lines) but is not yet fully understood. The best and only thing that can be done for the kittens is to offer them secure, stress-free homes. As far as other cats in potential adoptive homes, FIP itself is not contagious at all (like cancer the mutation is unique to the individual and cannot be passed on), only the innocuous form, FeCV can be transmitted. It is rare for cats older than 3 to break FIP. Above age 5, it is almost unheard of. So adult cats should be fine. However it is a risk the adopter needs to take on intentionally.

We had to put down a six month old kitten due to FIP in february, her full sib is doing fine at 9 months, but we watch her closely. In some litters every kitten dies of FIP, in others one breaks and the rest do fine – no one knows why.

BTW, the Cornell fact sheet on their FeCV test clearly states that it is NOT predictive of anything. A high titer does NOT predict breaking into FIP, a low titer does NOT predict that cat won’t break. There is NO correlation. Other than to confirm your kitten is a FeCV carrier (which almost all cats in a shelter environment are) there isn’t a lot of “point” to titering FeCV.

However, “sick for months” doesn’t sound like FIP. The symptoms of FIP are elusive and rarely apparent until the disease has become immediately fatal. Cats do not seem to suffer from it very much, eating and playing until nearly their last hours. My kitten was seen by the vet at 9am, brought in with an unexplained pot belly but otherwise eating, pooping, and playing normally… by 6pm she was euthanized with every system shutting down. This is a typical presentation of the more common “wet” form (fluid in the belly). The “dry” form usually presents with neurological symptoms.

It is a heartbreaking disease. My vet says it is hard on the staff too, knowing there is absolutely nothing to be done.

[CrowneDragon]

The male cat was the only one around, so he was definitely everyone’s dad. I am working to try to find homes for them, warning prospectives with the caveat that they may carry the coronavirus and transmit it to existing household cats, and that they are at elevated risk for developing FIP. I have hit up the area rescues and no one can help because they are all full with every other irresponsible idiot’s cats. I went to the store and bought canned food yesterday to start the young’uns on that. They are all 5-6 weeks old and had never been offered any solid food because their owner is a dimwit. They also have been up and moving for quite some time but were all still stuck in the boxes they were born in. I kept trying to get the owner to take care of it and gave up yesterday and cleaned out a stall for them and got it set up. Please god let me find homes for them before they can climb out of the stall. I have tried to get another gal at the barn to help me with finding homes and she said she was in, but then never got back in touch with me.

I left the barn last night at 11 pm after setting everything up and didn’t get time to do hardly anything with my horses. And I pay for this.

I’m ripping my hair out. Re-homing all of these kittens and their moms is going to be impossible with shelters and rescues stuffed to the gills with lovely friendly, healthy cats. And the other female is about to give birth any day. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy do so many moron’s own animals!? God help me.

****** IF YOU KNOW OF ANYONE IN THE MIDWEST WHO WOULD BE A GOOD HOME FOR A KITTEN(S) OR MOMMA CAT COMING FROM THIS SITUATION, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I WILL TRY TO MAKE DELIVERY HAPPEN. ********

[Calamber]

CrownDragon, can you post these kittens/cats to the Giveaway board. Also, what town are you in again? I will try and help to network.

[CrowneDragon]

[QUOTE=Calamber;7603721]
CrownDragon, can you post these kittens/cats to the Giveaway board. Also, what town are you in again? I will try and help to network.[/QUOTE]
I will post them there. Thanks for the reminder.
They are located in SW Michigan. Any help is appreciated, and I will travel for good homes.

Momma number 3 had her kittens last night. There are 4 black ones, like her, and one that is mostly black with small bits of grey striping. Very striking looking.

One aspect of this circus that I forgot to mention, that may be relevant to their genetic risk, is the male who had FIP is a sibling of some of the moms and maybe all of the moms. The adult cats themselves came to the barn as kittens and some or all of them were littermates. Insert eye roll here. If he was predisposed, his sisters (kitten’s moms) may be as well.