This is true about so very many….
8 Likes
Here’s a tip: just because someone mentioned something days ago doesn’t mean that’s all they’re talking about forever.
Also, if you had read closely, mine is a she, and when I was talking about unsound horses I said he.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand…
5 Likes
I mean ya…she’s outright saying the owner is lying about not being informed about the treatment by the vet. And I guess indirectly saying the horse wasn’t sound?
6 Likes
Man, the idea of “keeping the horse ‘sound enough’ so the 21 year old can continue to work (corrected from show) and jump” just, I don’t know, sounds really “off” to my ear.
‘Sound enough’ sounds uncomfortable but really willing to put up with what’s being asked of me. I have a 21 year old in the barn, too. Two of them. Both pretty high mileage horses and they get squat to keep them sound enough. They are just sound.
Granted, I’m not shipping either of them around the world to hurdle huge fences. But I’m pretty sure you’re not either.
13 Likes
You’re right, I’m not. I’m also not jumping bigger than .70m, or showing her. I also spend 4 days a week on flatwork and walking to keep her fit.
I’ve ridden lots of horses (aside from mine) that need the maintenance, and when they get it, they light up when they see the jumps or go to the show. They are regularly evaluated, and treated when necessary, by vets and body workers to ensure they are sound and comfortable. Maybe people that are arguing against this model simply haven’t met horses like that. 🤷
Regarding “sound enough,” that means sound. Period. If my horse (or anyone else’s) wasn’t sound, she wouldn’t be getting worked until she was.
3 Likes
It’s sorta one or the other. You described a slew of interventions and treatments. She’s 21 years old. In my experience (and I promise you, l’ve ridden, owned, shown, trained and managed loads of horses) there’s a line between maintenance and quality care of an aged - but sound - horse and managing a moderately unsound horse by patching them together and wishing they were still young horses.
The horse being happy doesn’t mean they are sound. Again, it just struck this horseman’s ear as justifying working a horse that’s not sound by doing enough to “get them sound.”
I guess I’d like to see this “sound horse jumping” - until then…it struck me as I described above.
7 Likes
I’m not going to continue to argue for what I do with my horse. You don’t know her, me, or my program. Not that you’ll believe me, but I promise you that I’m not “patching her together.”
This thread is about other people and other horses. If you’d like to continue to discuss my horse and me, you are free to DM me.
5 Likes
How is it horses 30 plus years ago weren’t getting these injections, yet jumping just as high well into their teens? Just one example, look at Big Ben, a horse who competed at and won top level Grand Prix for a decade, around 8-18 years old in the 80s and 90s. Yes, there may have been off label medications and less testing back then, but why aren’t we seeing horses at top levels now being able to continue competition for that long with supposedly better vet care and general living conditions?
Adequan has been around since mid 1990s, Legend was FDA approved in 2005, for reference.
4 Likes
Maybe horses today are pushed harder, showing much more and not given the rest they need to heal. Just given them drugs to keep going instead of letting them have a big block of time off. I don’t know because I haven’t followed the careers of hunters and jumpers.
14 Likes
Sapphire came this/close to attending three consecutive Olympic Games over the course of twelve years, winning two gold medals in the process, as I recall.
HH Azur won at the top level for something like eight years straight before her recent retirement.
There are others as well. Those two were just the first that came to mind.
15 Likes
Gazelle retired at 17 as did Hello Sanctos, Quick Study etc. Romanov was 19, so was Tinka’s Serenade, I know there are many more that retire at 17 and 18. I also think the horses that are making it to 17,18, 19 have jumped at a lot more shows than they did back in the 90s.
Partially I think it’s a horsemanship thing, successful horses these days have made so much money for their riders and owners that they really want them to go out on top.
4 Likes
@Virginia_Horse_Mom
Lol, this thread is really taking a detour now. I thought KH had sued SM for financial loss due to SM culpability in the Sacramento Winter Classics being cancelled. Hmmm…maybe not. Sami is a bully, in my opinion. Now, both parties are named as defendants, so must be in appeals or counter suit??
2 Likes
They certainly have the option to jump at a lot more different shows for a lot more prize money than the horses of 30 years ago. But some owners/riders/trainers elect to make good choices for their horse’s welfare.
It used to be that a $75,000 or $100,000 Grand Prix was a huge deal that would draw the cream of the crop. Now that might be the amount of prize money in the Grand Prix every week at a series of shows, and there might only be 20 competitors in the class on average.
And some of those riders might be organizing their schedule to do the Grand Prix and then run to the short stirrup ring in their whites to train a kid for that class. Or vice versa.
2 Likes
I don’t think it’s gone to trial yet. IANAL, but it seems like there were early rulings that were appealed. But the suit itself hasn’t gone to trial. They’ve done some case management. Who knows. Maybe it will settle out of court. That’s fairly common.
1 Like
As many posters have stated we have horses going well into their teens with long careers. And there are so many more shows. The courses are much more technical where horses have to be allergic to wood. And the horses don’t get winters off. It’s 365 24/7 now.
I love when people trot out the good old days as an argument meanwhile some of their heroes were giving horses reserpine to win in the hunters but we just didn’t have a test for it as one of the many examples of “Oh in the good old days we didn’t drug horses.” I call BS
26 Likes
All the drug and abuse rules we have now came because people drugged and abused their horses. It’s an ever developing aspect of horse showing, but the list didn’t get that long just because. Some of it was ignorance and a lot of it was human ambition. We still have those things, but it is much less acceptable these days to ride a horse until it breaks and then ship it off to slaughter.
18 Likes
I remember when a great, incredibly knowledgeable horsewoman, extremely well respected, fought like a demon to get drug testing, back in the darkest of dark ages. Sadly, her people were using the 'liquid yellow longe line" themselves, without her knowledge.
9 Likes
And I’ll further suggest the (seeming) lack of older show horses is because no one is buying teenaged horses… heck, they think 14 is too old for a 1.10m horse 
But no doubt the 12-month long season, 12-week long circuits, and vanishing acreage all play a part in long-term sport horse soundness. I even question modern footing over sand, but sand doesn’t drain well and the show must go on.
I have the pleasure to know a great group of senior horses packing their 3rd-5th generation of young riders around right now (~ 2’6") and there is considerable thought, maintenance and expense undertaken to keep those horses comfortable. Most of it is shoeing… do you consider that a band-aid? There are certainly injections and bodywork— thoughtfully as each horse needs it. No one’s lining them up and throwing syringes at them like a dartboard hoping for a bullseye. And then, of course, there are the supplements and yeah, medication.
So at what point do you draw the line and toss the horse out as useless? They come out creaky and get a lot of walking, then loosen up and do an outstanding job for their kids. Kids who only have the pleasure of riding them because they come at a discount— the “maintenance free” version is 10x the money. If they suddenly start stopping, we listen. But otherwise they are, by all appearances, happy as clams getting loved on by kids and popping around the 2’6" twice a week and showing some weekends. They have jobs and because of that, they are safe. Perhaps a little rickety fresh out of the stall and possibly dead lame without that $400 farrier job, but safe.
The amount of imported 6-10 year olds I watch sell each year practically haunts me. Where are all the 6-10 year olds we sold 4 years ago? 5 years ago? 8 years ago? What are these horses doing and are they safe?
The whole “the horses have no voice” is defeated the second we throw a leg-over them and teach them not to immediately yeet us into the ground. They do have voices, and good horsemen listen. But there are not acres upon acres of green pastures for allllll of these horses to just retire to at the age of 16 on someone’s dime because taking extensive measures to keep them sound and comfortable is being perceived as abuse. Is it in their best interests? If the alternative is the pipeline then yes, yes it is.
32 Likes
Adequan was approved in 1989. Legend was approved in 1991.
9 Likes
Oh I agree. When the horse is consistently refusing fences, head bobbing lame (though slight), tail wringing and fussy in the bridle - that’s not a happy, sound packer. And some pros can’t see or accept that their horse is done.
I led an educational session with a local schooling barn that does day camps and such. I’ve scribed those kid’s dressage tests often and knew they might benefit from a bit of education to help them ride the geometry. It was fun and rewarding to see them improve their ability to ride a 20m circle or see the centerline more readily as they rode to it from the corner. Those horses are bored bored bored of Intro A & B, lol, and they are safe and sane and loved to pieces. Some of them get maintenance and every one of them come down c-line SOUND.
When professionals are throwing the kitchen sink at a horse and they still aren’t truly sound, then the professional isn’t doing the horse justice.
9 Likes
