Selevit Injectable

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I understand what you are saying… however, we were just discussing the USEF loan agreement a few posts back, and I went back and looked at the actual document someone else linked previously, and one paragraph in particular seems noteworthy…

It is further understood that as required in the FEI General and Veterinary Regulations, the USEF’s duly appointed
Chef d’Equipe has final responsibility for general management, schooling, declaration and scratching of entries, and the
observance of veterinary administration for all Team horses.

Anyway… multiple people on this thread have said all along that at this level, decisions are made by a management team. And if selevit was being administered off label to mitigate muscle soreness, and to not only help the horse get through his final jog but also perform his best in the final leg… I would assume a few different members of the management team thought this was a good idea, and it wasn’t necessarily the independent decision of the team vet.

I guess the team vet could have and maybe should have said “I’m not giving selevit. We haven’t tested the horse’s selenium levels and the risks of giving it outweigh any possible benefit in terms of reducing muscle soreness.” But… as has become quite clear during this discussion… it seems like that’s not typical at this level. Everyone is trying to keep the horses as comfortable as possible and maintain a competitive edge.

[jvanrens]

@NaturallyHappy

I agree. When I first read “off label” I thought it must be something like Osphos…used so often on NQR horses. Then I looked at the label with nothing mentioning horses.

Look here:

Selevit 100 ml

[MHM]

@Rel6

This agreement specifies that USEF could decide it would swap you off your mount if it benefits USEF to do so.

I think that happened way back in the day when the chef d’equipe could basically pick anyone he wanted for the teams, and assign the horses as he saw fit.

I think that would cause a mass riot today. Especially given the prices on these horses.

[StormyDay]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

I understand what you are saying… however, we were just discussing the USEF loan agreement a few posts back, and I went back and looked at the actual document someone else linked previously, and one paragraph in particular seems noteworthy…

It is further understood that as required in the FEI General and Veterinary Regulations, the USEF’s duly appointed
Chef d’Equipe has final responsibility for general management, schooling, declaration and scratching of entries, and the
observance of veterinary administration for all Team horses.

Anyway… multiple people on this thread have said all along that at this level, decisions are made by a management team. And if selevit was being administered off label to mitigate muscle soreness, and to not only help the horse get through his final jog but also perform his best in the final leg… I would assume a few different members of the management team thought this was a good idea, and it wasn’t necessarily the independent decision of the team vet.

I guess the team vet could have and maybe should have said “I’m not giving selevit. We haven’t tested the horse’s selenium levels and the risks of giving it outweigh any possible benefit in terms of reducing muscle soreness.” But… as has become quite clear during this discussion… it seems like that’s not typical at this level. Everyone is trying to keep the horses as comfortable as possible and maintain a competitive edge.

Even if others in management said ‘we want this done’ as a medical professional, the vet should have refused without further testing. Whether or not it was his idea, he was the medical professional on site and it was his duty to provide care for the horse. He failed in providing the best treatment he could.

If I go to the hospital to have my appendix taken out, and the hospital CEO tells the surgeon to amputate my foot, does that mean the surgeon isn’t at blame? No; it just means two people are at blame. It certainly doesn’t protect the surgeon from my lawsuit.

Now, I will say, that I don’t know how contentious this position is for veterinary care in FEI competition. He may have felt that if he said no he would loose his job. That’s not an excuse, but if that’s the case that’s a culture change that needs to be addressed.

Every year it seems, USEF has some concerning controversy come out that stems from ‘we did it like this back in the day’. I feel like they are constantly playing catch up instead of trying to be ahead of the ball. This contract worked 40 years ago when no one had a cell phone and a horse could need treatment when the owner was in another country and couldn’t be reached for hours or maybe days. But No one has looked at this since and gone, ‘gosh, seems like this might be outdated. Time to get the contract lawyers on this’?

[SlamDunk]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Anyway… multiple people on this thread have said all along that at this level, decisions are made by a management team. And if selevit was being administered off label to mitigate muscle soreness, and to not only help the horse get through his final jog but also perform his best in the final leg… I would assume a few different members of the management team thought this was a good idea, and it wasn’t necessarily the independent decision of the team vet.

I think it is essentially what Hardin is saying (in her FB post), while the owner is claiming she and her vet were left out of the decision-making process. It seems unlikely that the horse’s entire team was left out of the decision on how to treat the horse. But I also can’t see why the owner would lie, especially so publically (when presumably it would be easy to disprove if there were witnesses who saw her be informed etc). Who knows perhaps one day we will have an answer in court documents I guess

[Rel6]

But this contract is from 2020, and owners are signing what is a legally binding document granting that permission to USEF.

Maybe it’s my lawyer paranoia shining through, but I am shocked USEF was able to get the owners of such valuable animals to sign this in the first place.

[Railbird]

I don’t doubt the owner was left in the dark but I do doubt the vet didn’t tell ANYONE else. I think the lone gunman rogue vet who won’t be rehired (problem solved! No changes needed!) is an awfully convenient fall man for no systematic accountability from any other party admitting they consented as the person who represented having care and custody of the horse. If I polled 50 random owners at WEF and asked them what medications their horse had in its system, I doubt many would get it right.

[NaturallyHappy]

@jvanrens

Look here:

grovet.com

Selevit 100 ml

Vitamin E, vitamin B12, selenium and

Thx! I did not see that on the link I posted above.

[Demerara_Stables]

@SlamDunk

It seems unlikely that the horse’s entire team was left out of the decision on how to treat the horse.

@Railbird

I don’t doubt the owner was left in the dark but I do doubt the vet didn’t tell ANYONE else.

If this was a typical owner, sure. But the “team” in Riyadh was KC, Pepe, Jill, and Rudy. None of those people were going to not tell KC that the horse was getting meds when she specifically said not to give him meds unless they cleared it with her. Pepe even called her to tell her. There’s not a chance in hell that the vet told Rudy or Jill and they didn’t run it by KC or Pepe and just said “oh ya, no problem.” As has been said before, KC bred and raised this horse, she lives on the farm where he was born and lived for 14 years. She’s more involved than almost every owner I’ve met.

Whether or not the vet ran the injection protocol by the USEF team is unknown, but at the end of the day it’s the vet’s responsibility to keep the horse alive, and if he injected something this dangerous (he did), that’s on him, no one else.

[Railbird]

I absolutely agree that KC is extremely involved and knowledgeable about her horse. Didn’t mean to have it appear I suggested otherwise.

[Demerara_Stables]

Understood. Maybe the vet told the USET management (or they told him what to give), but either way, he’s responsible for knowing what he’s giving.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Railbird

I don’t doubt the owner was left in the dark but I do doubt the vet didn’t tell ANYONE else.

The loan agreement states that the Chef D’Equipe has a degree of oversight when it comes to veterinary decisions. What that means in practice? I don’t know. But that’s a piece of the situation that is also not getting discussed in articles yet.

[Midge]

@Demerara_Stables

But the “team” in Riyadh was KC, Pepe, Jill, and Rudy.

When I referred to management team above as the people who might have made the decision, I was referring to the USEF people managing the whole team, not the horse’s personal caregivers.

[Angela_Freda]

@Virginia_Horse_Mom

Was there really a contract though? Or was it more of an agreement/waiver?

And what does it and doesn’t it cover, and were amendments made to it…
.

[Angela_Freda]

Excellent analogy

[Angela_Freda]

@Demerara_Stables

the “team” in Riyadh was KC, Pepe, Jill, and Rudy. None of those people were going to not tell KC that the horse was getting meds when she specifically said not to give him meds unless they cleared it with her. Pepe even called her to tell her

I’m dying to know what happened after Pepe called her.
What happened in that barn, and on her end.

I can’t imagine how he feels.

[Annie10]

@Rel6

But this contract is from 2020, and owners are signing what is a legally binding document granting that permission to USEF.

Maybe it’s my lawyer paranoia shining through, but I am shocked USEF was able to get the owners of such valuable animals to sign this in the first place.

Right? I don’t have anything close to a 6 figure horse but I would never sign that team or no team.
I wouldn’t sign that for my dog

[Aussie_2020]

When you’re in the league of these owners, riders, etc I think you have a better understanding of the contract. I believe the owner was confident she would be consulted before and about medications. For online quarterbacks to say they wouldn’t sign such an agreement… riiiigggghhhhtttt. Bye-bye then, take your horsie and exit from the world stage. So all the breeding, training, and competing to this point is for naught.

[Ghazzu]

@Aussie_2020

For online quarterbacks to say they wouldn’t sign such an agreement…

I used to say I wouldn’t sell my horse Tiger for a million bucks.
It was a safe statement–no one was going to offer me same.

[Mardi1]

@Aussie_2020

Bye-bye then, take your horsie and exit from the world stage. So all the breeding, training, and competing to this point is for naught.

For a breeder, it’s never for naught.