I saw that comment.
I have always had lot of respect for her.
Don’t know what to make of it.
But… I still come back to selevit being given off label and injected IV, and anaphylactic shock risks… and USEF’s initial reported comments about EIPH… and it’s all baffling.
That comment makes no sense, I don’t know why you are reposting it here like it gives new info. Its not like they were shooting him up with a combo of super secret serums designed to mask major lameness.
Legend and Adequan have actual therapeutic benefit, they aren’t just masking pain and I’m sure they do benefit some horses given post competition. Traumeel is, as noted, an ampoule of pure german voodoo. Selivet is NOT a painkiller- I’d love to know how the above poster thinks it makes a lame horse pass the jog. Is it the B12? I guess we’ll never know as the commnet is no longer at the link.
We need better basic science education in our schools.
I understand where you are coming from.
The mention of some sort of legal isoxsuprine is noteworthy… I have no idea if the horse had been receiving anything like that or not… but if it had… then it definitely complicates the entire situation.
We old vets remember the deaths caused by E-Se injection given IV back in the 1980s. If given, our protocol was to give it deep IM split in 2 or 3 sites to avoid soreness. Better off to feed it daily. So we do not trust nutrition anymore? Then why all the supplements?
Amen!
Preach!
@paw, I’ve felt that way ever since Royal Kaliber got hurt jumping in footing Chris Kapler was worried about.
Is it just me, or is that a bit unhinged?
Typical quality of that person, IMO.
She asks if we would be having the same conversation. Well, Duh. We are having this conversation because the horse died! His groom would know everything the horse was used to getting and all the therapies, standard and not, that were used to manage the horse. He was pretty sure the horse should not be getting anything. Enough that he tried to get the owner involved before it happened. KMFSH may have some super secret insider info, but I’d be willing to bet it is not more than the groom.
Her imagining of having this same conversation if he won makes no sense.
I’ve seen other comments online indicating that the selevit injection might have acted as a masking agent.
Is there any veterinary truth to that?
Sure it does, the clear inference is that the horse’s own vet was in regular consultation with the treating vet about the course of treatment this particular horse needed to ensure he passed the jog the next day.
As far as we know it’s speculation on the part of the poster, not fact. Speculation just like the idea that all meds were lumped into one 60cc! syringe, except that assumption beggars the imagination. This assumption absolutely tracks at the upper levels.
What also tracks is that if a particular horse has a history of getting held or spun in FEI jogs, that horse’s management team has a program unique to that horse to ensure it doesn’t happen, most especially at WC. And that program will be shared with the treating vet. (And because this is COTH full of cothness, I must clarify that I have no idea if this horse was ever held or spun, I’m just pointing out what would likely happen if that was the case, as the original poster on that thread stated he was).
What seems off is the owner’s explanation, while the one laid out in the comments seems more consistent with the way things are. Team vets aren’t interested in changing the program unless it results in a positive test. If the program (whatever you may think of the ethical aspect) got that horse to that level, qualified for the team, why would the team vet want to tinker with it? Of course, in speculation land, it could happen… but does it sound right? And maybe it’s something as tragic as a miscommunication or language barrier between her vet and the treating vet over the phone (always a great place to not get it right)?
Nevertheless, even though every shot has some risk of anaphylactic shock, it’s tough (impossible) to square the risk/reward of injectable E-Se and I feel for his connections.
That part I found worth exploring. Are we only outraged at the number and type of injections because the horse died?
If the horse was alive and the owner said "my horse won but he got all these unnecessary and potentially deadly injections without my permission " would we be as outraged? Is winning what makes the difference between excessive and what it takes to compete at this level?
How exactly does selivet help a horse pass a jog?
I don’t believe that the comments indicated selevit helped the horse pass the jog.
I think the implication was that the horse was receiving a hefty regimen of legal medications… and it was questionable as to whether or not it would pass a jog without it. And the owner’s more recent comments about not knowing anything about any of the other meds in the horse’s system that were listed on the necropsy report? Those comments are being called into question, to a certain extent.
Anyway… it is a super sad situation. It does seem possible to me that the horse was getting a hefty amount of legal meds to pass jogs and continue competing at this level … which is understandably its own topic of discussion and concern … but also that the horse received the IV selevit injection post ride in Riyadh, and died from anaphylactic shock in conjunction with that injection.
I think people are expressing concerns because we now know about it. If the horse didn’t have any adverse effects, it wouldn’t make the news and none of us would know. One of the articles mentioned at least 2 other horses got the same or similar treatment (unclear if it was just talking about the E-Se or all of it) and were fine. But did they disclose which horses these were? No. And that tidbit is only mentioned to try to push the EIPH story, like it couldn’t be the injections because all 3 horses didn’t die. 
I do find it interesting how the USEF is doubling down. Remember when they decided to ban Depo Provera all of a sudden because some people were coming forward with stories of horses having anaphylactic reactions and dying sometimes following the injections? Without any data on the compounding pharmacies or anything. People used it to enhance performance (mood) without any clear scientific support and some horses died. So now on the banned list. But they are fine using something else that has been known for decades to be high risk and for seemingly off label use for questionable benefit assuming these horses receive adequate diets.
Oh boy. More comments from KMSFH on FB.
It is a bold accusation that the owner is lying about the horse being sound and not needing medications and that the home vet was involved.
Why would the groom call the owner if that was the case? A groom is not likely to know possible reactions of certain meds (would most of us?) So it wouldn’t be concern over one particular medication. That part of the narrative doesn’t line up with the FB comments.
I would guess it would have stayed in house, because there would be nothing to tell, really. I assume she still would have wanted to know what and why and who decided, just as she does now. If he had won, it wouldn’t have been a shock or surprise. But, the horse died. I mean, that is leagues out of what is expected to happen. KMFSH makes a deal out of the home vet being on the phone with the team vet, when I would think that would be SOP for every horse. But once again, the person who probably knows the most about that horse’s management didn’t think he should be doing anything but chilling in his stall.
It’s definitely a bold accusation. I concur.
I read the articles, but didn’t key in on the portion about the groom. I’ll have to go back and re-read to see what to make of that.
The whole situation is tragic. And I can definitely understand an owner who is also a breeder being distraught after suddenly losing a horse in these circumstances. But… there are a few puzzle pieces that are just not making sense to me. And… there is some lack of clarity in statements, and conflicting statements, and that also gives me pause.
Ugggh. If nothing else, I hope this raises awareness of the risks of selevit/E-Se.
I thought I read somewhere that the “other meds” were discovered in his bloodstream during necropsy and that Branscomb said she wasn’t aware they had been given until those test results came back. Did I misread or was that a misinterpretation on the author’s part? (And danged if I can remember where I saw that info!)
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