Selevit Injectable

[Sticky_Situation]

@Demerara_Stables

@Sticky_Situation

Please show me a quality scientific study demonstrating that chiropractic keeps horses sounder.

.

@Demerara_Stables

Just because there isn’t money to do research doesn’t mean that something doesn’t work.

That’s … not how science works. Anecdotes aren’t a substitute for evidence.

I mean, I can claim that the cure to cancer is rubbing peanut butter on your feet, but the fact that I can’t afford to do an RCT does not mean that it works.

With chiropractic, I’m pretty sure the absence of research has less to do with lack of funding, and more to do with the fact that it’s a widely held belief system that makes plenty of money for those that practice it without much overhead, and plenty of clients don’t care about evidence or science, so chiropractic practitioners have little to gain and much more to lose if they do studies which prove to be negative.

[Sticky_Situation]

I assume that giving IV selenium diluted in saline wouldn’t render it unable to cause anaphylaxis, though.

[IPEsq]

I know at least one vet who has used it as part of the mixture for mesotherapy. Although for that, apparently straight saline is as effective as anything else, but I know there are a variety of cocktails for meso.

[jvanrens]

@Ghazzu

@jvanrens

Is it possible they ran it like a jug in a saline solution (forgive me if my terminology is off) and not straight injections?

It is entirely possible though I think there might have been mention of same, which there was not, and IV saline shouldn’t have resulted in a dead horse.

I can imagine it wouldn’t, or there would be horses dropping like flies at every racetrack in the country every day. I was thinking for what ever reason this particular vet thought the dosage might have been safer running through a jug of saline. Hydrate and “medicate” at the same time. The information available is a wee bit sketchy as it is.

[OutsidersOpinion]

Do you not give bute or banamine ever after a horse shows? Do you take Tylenol/advil/aleve yourself after a show day?

It’s definitely not asinine.

[Ghazzu]

@Sticky_Situation

I assume that giving IV selenium diluted in saline wouldn’t render it unable to cause anaphylaxis, though.

It might decrease the likelihood.
I’m not sure why the stuff elicits such a pronounced reaction (given at the correct dose.)

[Sticky_Situation]

If I or my horse are sore or have an injury, sure I’ll use some oral NSAIDs. Routinely just because I/they did a competition? Nope.

And I don’t give anything IV for minor musculoskeletal pain, and definitely not for “recovery” in an asymptomatic horse. Particularly not anything that is known to cause anaphylaxis when I don’t have resuscitation stuff available.

I stand by my original statement.

[Sticky_Situation]

I guess it might at least give you time to recognize that the horse is having a reaction when only a small amount has been given rather than the whole dose. But it still is certainly not a risk I’d want to take with my horses for some vague, unproven benefit!

[Ghazzu]

@Sticky_Situation

I guess it might at least give you time to recognize that the horse is having a reaction when only a small amount has been given rather than the whole dose. But it still is certainly not a risk I’d want to take with my horses for some vague, unproven benefit!

Yes.
The package insert for E-Se, the product I am familiar with, stresses that IV injection must be given slowly, and further observes that, if given IM, anaphylactoid reactions are slower in onset and allow more time to institute appropriate treatment.

[Mardi1]

@capalypinto

I can’t believe there is no discussion about that horse’s death here. What happened to him?

There’s an ongoing discussion on the Dressage forum

[enjoytheride]

The tribute to the horse’s groom had my eyes a little wet. The owner truly seems like a good person.

Branscomb Farm

[NaturallyHappy]

I just lost it when I read “he was searching for Pepe’s strong hands”.

[enjoytheride]

What I find very eye opening is that the owner does not appear to have the same frequent medication protocol that some are saying is business as usual on the FEI level.

"I think they are attempting to deflect attention away from the massive injection of pharmaceuticals my obviously healthy horse received 3-4 minutes before he had a violent seizure and died quickly…

I believe firmly Chromatic BF was killed by a shock reaction to the IV injection of unnecessary and risky medication, done without anyone on my team’s knowledge, while under full custodial control of the USEF more than 90 minutes after my horse performed perfectly and returned healthy and fit to the stables with his lifetime groom. That is my truth and I stand by it."

[Mardi1]

@enjoytheride

The owner truly seems like a good person.

Not only is she the owner, but the breeder as well.

[Demerara_Stables]

Same. Poor Pepe. This is all such bulls**t.

[Demerara_Stables]

@enjoytheride

What I find very eye opening is that the owner does not appear to have the same frequent medication protocol that some are saying is business as usual on the FEI level.

She doesn’t. It isn’t a big time jumper barn as in they don’t have ton of FEI horses, in fact Chromatic may have been their only one. They have many, many super talented young horses coming up the ranks but not many at this level. Additionally, the program doesn’t rely on drugs to keep the horses going - they are developed thoughtfully, correctly, and with a strong emphasis on turnout and keeping their minds sound just like their bodies are.

[MHM]

@skydy

This reminds me of the death of the TB stallion Laoban

Purely by coincidence, I did the farm tour at WinStar that very day. And no one there said anything about it, and nobody on the tour knew it had happened.

Then I went to my next farm tour stop that day, and it was a huge topic of discussion there among the staff at that place. And I said to them, “When did this happen?!? I was just at that farm not two hours ago.”

Apparently the news had just come out over Twitter or something between the time I left WinStar and the time I got to the other farm. That was crazy.

[paw]

All I know is that I would now never allow a horse of mine to be on a team. I do not trust USEF to have the best intentions when it comes to the health of my (or any single) horse. Shame on them.

[fivestrideline]

Absolutely.

Thread drift and all, but let’s try to keep the focus on what happened here, not the potential or lack of benefits of Adequan.

[enjoytheride]

I’m going to drop a quote from a responder on the horse owner’s FB page (appearing to me to blame the owner/breeder) , link to thread with the quote below.

"’m saying that NO ONE tried to kill her champion

Everyone loved him and was trying to keep him comfortable and happy and able to pass the jogs which often he did not

The vet on the case at home would have been heralded a Genius! And almost was
Let’s just say if he had won , legal meds and support on board - would we be having the same conversation?

 And really think about that !!!

because if it was
TRULY about the medication’s and truly about her not knowing what was going on, would still be having the same conversation???

Can you picture that? because I am and sorry I cannot picture that

I picture a completely different case scenario had he survived - one where the concoctions used to keep him comfortable are then widely held up and advertised some type of legal isoxsuprine , vascular dilators

I can tell you firsthand that she knew the risks of taking him and the condition he was in, and that he may return unable to ever compete again she was willing to put his physical life and future on the line

Who’s to blame? -not a veterinarian who took the hippocratic oath , and was following instructions
And not the organization not The Horse. He didn’t drive himself to the airport, loaded himself up and put himself on the plane

So my question all along is why is there so much blame and finger pointing ?? ANYTIME a horse gets a shot they can suffer anaphylactic
Everyone knew the risks. One person is pointing blame because it didn’t go the way she wanted it to go.
And he did not come home"

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