Selevit Injectable

[Ghazzu]

There are any number of pharmaceuticals that are routinely used extralabel in equine practice.
Some with more justification than others.
In this case, I’d say the risk/benefit ratio for Legend/Adequan is low, but the risk/benefit ratio for injectable selenium preparations, absent clinical indications, is unacceptably high.
Someone made a crappy judgement call, IMHO.

[Limerick]

I think I would remember that! I am a hard core Adequan fan and have been for about 15 years. It was 3 tubes of Perfect Prep and a few tubes of Lactalase……and ?

Anyone remember?

[enjoytheride]

Nope. My FEI vet prescribes Equioxx.

[fivestrideline]

Well, I’m at least happy you try to practice what you preach. (That’s not sarcastic. I disagree, but I think that’s allowed).

Personally I’m thankful to have a vet that will prescribe previcox. Saves me some hard earned cash.

Back to the matter at hand: the Legend and Adequan don’t bother me (assuming the Adequan was given IM, not IV as it seemed to be presented by the original confusing report). It’s the rest of it, the why, the how, the lack of owner input, and now the way USEF is handling the fallout.

[bugsynskeeter1]

Here is the original thread… I’m trying to find it https://forum.chronofhorse.com/t/that-pony-lawsuit-omg-you-have-to-see-those-heritage-invoices

Ooops…it was this thread: Colvin Civil Suit

[jvanrens]

@Ghazzu

As am I.
One wonders what real evidence supports their use.

Is it possible they ran it like a jug in a saline solution (forgive me if my terminology is off) and not straight injections?

[Demerara_Stables]

@Sticky_Situation

There is a way-too-prevalent mentality these days that proper care of horses means giving them “maintenance” in the form of injections, alternative therapies, chiropractic etc and most of these things aren’t based in any actual evidence at all. Horses aren’t cars. Horses’ bodies actually do quite well with proper nutrition, turnout, and proper training, and no injection or “bodywork” is a replacement for any of those things.

My 21 year old horse who has had proper turnout and training her entire life and gets significantly sounder and more comfortable in her body with less muscle tightness when she gets: bi annual Adequan, yearly PRP in her stifles, monthly massage/acupuncture/chiro, and daily back on track blankets and laser would heartily disagree with you. And lest you say that I have no idea what things are working and what things aren’t, each of these therapies has been added to her routine individually over years and each has contributed to a vast improvement in her body. The horse loves to work and loves to jump, so I’m going to continue to help keep her sound enough to do those things, as will everyone else with an older horse that requires maintenance. No, we shouldn’t be injecting hocks of 5 year olds, but modern medicine and therapies exist to keep our partners comfortable and happy and we should use them.

[Demerara_Stables]

@jvanrens

Is it possible they ran it like a jug in a saline solution (forgive me if my terminology is off) and not straight injections?

That’s a super interesting idea that is quite common in hospitals, and I could see the desire to give him IV fluids as well.

[Sticky_Situation]

Absence of evidence of benefit is not evidence of absence of benefit. Most of the things you listed just haven’t been well studied and there isn’t quality scientific evidence they work. Anecdotes in support of them are everywhere, and by all means if you feel like they’re helping your horse, carry on … but that doesn’t mean that your results can be extrapolated to every horse, or that it’s something that is always beneficial or necessary for optimal horse care.

And just because some USEF vet says mainlining some selenium will help your horse “recover faster” doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea or that you don’t care about your horse’s comfort and soundness if you say “no thanks.”

[Demerara_Stables]

To be clear, I am not at all talking about the selenium. Clearly that has been proven to have fatal effects.

But saying that chiropractic care or other therapies (regular Adequan for instance) don’t work is just showing a lack of experience with these therapies. Not only do they work on my horse but they have worked on dozens of horses that I have trained and rehabbed, and thousands of other horses that receive the therapies everyday. Just because there isn’t money to do research doesn’t mean that something doesn’t work.

[Sticky_Situation]

Please show me a quality scientific study demonstrating that chiropractic keeps horses sounder. That’s what evidence is. A
I know lots of people believe it works and swear by it, but anecdotes aren’t data.

[Railbird]

I think the max damages here might exceed the coverage limits. I know the last time I spoke with someone who somewhat recently purchased a 1.60 horse, one that will get around but not necessarily clean is still north of a million dollars, so you’d have to think one that just jumped clear at the world cup is 2+ right? I don’t think most vets carry malpractice for that much per incidence, though any one in their right mind that was hired by the USET would require them to carry malpractice so comes down to what the USET/USEF carries.

[skydy]

This reminds me of the death of the TB stallion Laoban.

Veterinarian Agrees to Suspension in Laoban Death

USEF’s reaction to the death of Chromatic is quite frankly, appalling.

[Demerara_Stables]

@Sticky_Situation

Please show me a quality scientific study demonstrating that chiropractic keeps horses sounder.

.

@Demerara_Stables

Just because there isn’t money to do research doesn’t mean that something doesn’t work.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I follow what you are saying, and a 7 figure payout makes sense to me. There are certainly a number of factors that might come into play. Coverage limits, how Chromatic was insured, etc. Then there is the issue of the necropsy report… which seems like it has some errors and gaps. And last but not least… there is the question of what treatment was given/not given as soon as the horse exhibited signs of distress.

Anyway… I still am baffled by USEF’s statements in the latest reporting. It seems like the tone and statements are going to intensify friction and distrust with Branscomb… and that’s not ideal for anyone trying to avoid a lawsuit and expeditiously negotiate a settlement.

[Ghazzu]

@BrownDerby

Thank you for revealing Traumell’s ingredients. It’s puzzling to me that the vet injected the horse with a substance that contains both belladonna and St. John’s wort, both of which are extremely toxic to horses.

“dosis sola facit venenum”
“The dose makes the poison.”

[Ghazzu]

@Sticky_Situation

Giving IV drugs to a healthy horse for routine “recovery” after a competition is asinine.

Agreed.
IMHO, which counts for little, either the competition is not a fair test or the animal is unsuited–or both.
If an animal requires medical intervention to “recover” from an athletic performance, it should be withdrawn from further participation in that event.

[Ghazzu]

@enjoytheride

Yet both drugs are being used off label with no research that the frequency is beneficial (or not harmful). Anecdotal evidence does not count.

I just saw a paper that looked at the use of Adequan, and it determined that following the label protocol was effective, and not improved by more frequent (i.e., 1 dose/month) use, but I’m damned if I can put my hands on it right now.

[Ghazzu]

@enjoytheride

Nope. My FEI vet prescribes Equioxx.

I’ve had equal success with the recent generics. (equine labelled)

[Ghazzu]

@jvanrens

Is it possible they ran it like a jug in a saline solution (forgive me if my terminology is off) and not straight injections?

It is entirely possible though I think there might have been mention of same, which there was not, and IV saline shouldn’t have resulted in a dead horse.