I will add my mare with terrible separation anxiety has greatly improved being home where she’s able to either be in a stall or go out to turnout. With just two horses at home she gets pretty upset if I leave with her buddy. Pretty sure she’d be happiest in a big herd of horses with run in sheds but I can’t solve it all.
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I have a mostly reformed self mutalating horse. His wasn’t so complex in that he’s never weaved, fence walked, or any of that. He did, however, bite his sides and flanks so much that he has permanent scarring (from before I owned him). Gelding him solved 95% of the problem, but he’ll still do it on occasion. He does not break his skin anymore though. He just snifs at his flank area, kicks (like it would be another horse doing it), and spins. This generally only happens when he’s outside alone. He doesn’t run, or really get worked up. He just does this routine a few times.
For him it’s a mental quirk. I haven’t seen him do it in ages, but it’s possible that he still does on occasion. He’s also done it when over stimulated in a social/herd situation, like when he’s first introduced.
They key for him is social interaction with other horses and just being fulfilled through regular work. He’s very intelligent and sensitive, so I work or interact with him daily. Keeping him mentally interested in his work and physically exercised, helps. It possibly prevents him from having too much energy/nervous energy in his spare time.
I read an interesting study that basically equates this condition in horses to Tourette Syndrome in humans (interesting read here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8014092/). It describes my horse quite well. He is a bit quirky and had some other “ticks” when I first got him.
It’s certainly worth considering ulcers, but this isn’t typically pain related. It’s mental and you’ve just got to figure out what works best or eases the behaviors. Usually living in a herd, and keeping them engaged in work helps. It would be interesting to try some medication though. It’s not really something you can just undo, but it can be managed and the behaviors can be reduced.
It would be interesting to see his testosterone levels.
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Hello
He did have his teeth done by a dentist then the vet also did a dental exam nothing was found. Under saddle and for grooming, farrier and so on he is fine no issues and is fairly cal and not spooky to everyday life. but the stall walking ,fence walking, biting flanks i can’t explain. I have done all i know for him. I agree that to me this its a pain thing but then again I would expect to see signs of that riding or grooming.And the stress to the point of colic really worries me. We have vetted him for everything. He gets good feed supplements, mixed hay with alaphia pellets.
I am afraid that this is behavioral which will be harder to fix and maybe he just needs to be in a professional program and I am at a very small barn and just do local shows. Frustrating to say the least.
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I would do more experimentation with his environment (and I know you already did a lot of this with various turnout options, from the OP) and general management. I think I’d also be inclined to treat for ulcers, regardless of whether you found any on a scope. (I also liked the comments about doing a FEC and reviewing other stuff, like dental.)
This sounds like a stereotypy (like weaving, cribbing, etc.). The function of a stereotypy is more or less ‘stress relief;’ the animal has an unmet behavioral need. I would not be inclined to try to prevent the stereotypic behavior without attempting to identify and resolve whatever that behavioral need is. Can he be additionally hand-walked/hand-grazed? Does different hay (grass? alfalfa?) in different forms of slow-feeder/puzzle toys have any impact in the stall? Does he behave any differently in nighttime turnout vs. day time turnout? What if he gets moved around more frequently during the day, from stall to turnout to a different stall, etc.?
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Hi
There seemingly is no rhyme or reason for the time he is at his worst. There could be a lot of horses working coming in or out and he just hangs out or be flying around the stall. I have camera in his stall so I watch him at night and sometimes he is quite sometimes. I do agree with the post about treating for ulcers and I am trying to find a cheaper way…I hate to say that but I have spent TONs above purchese price just trying to do diagnostics and I just came do 800 a month on top of board. This guy also never turns food down evens when he in really stall walking.weaving he still eats and looks for more.
One of my owners refused to treat her horse’s ulcers and so under vet guidance we switched him to ultium gastric care. He was on 24/7 grass turnout as well. It was not ideal, but it did work over time. I think the “gastric care” is due to the addition of Outlast, so I would imagine you could add that to what you are already feeding.
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I’d try Sucralfate for the gut since he scoped clean. And I’d do a FEC as mentioned above. It’s controversial but Depo Provera might help him cope or you could try something like Trazodone or Prozac. None of it show legal, but he needs help with his daily life first. That is if the T test comes back negative.
In the meantime, I second looking up Warwick Schiller’s videos. There’s a lot in there about helping to teach horses to reset their nervous systems. Your gut doesn’t seem to get concerned by the usual things but obviously does still carry a lot of anxiety that he can’t deal with. On the journey, you might find he becomes more reactive to the other stuff for a while too, but that’s ok. Another resource is the TRT Method for some similar concepts.
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Abler equine sells generic gastroguard. You will see it referred to as pop rocks because the product looks like those. I actually prefer it over real gastroguard because it’s easier to feed the ones that learn to not let themselves be given tubes of stuff. Which, after the 3rd or 4th day of gastro, they usually decide they are giraffes.
Nexium is also used, you can most definitely find dosage recommendations on here.
I had a friend who had a young horse who was gelded and it did not heal well inside. He bit his flanks and even his sheath. Vet finally determined there as a “twisted cord” inside (?), they did a minor surgery, and he was fine after that. Just something to think about.
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WOW you are the second person to say that! I had not heard out that in geldings. Thank you i ll see if I can get that as well.
I’m sorry that I didn’t read through all the posts so I might have missed someone else making this suggestion…
My horse acted like that at the trainers where he was for a month and they originally had no clue what to do with him. We put ear plugs in and it stopped just about all stall walking and nervous behavior. He now doesn’t need to wear them except in extreme situations but it was a big help for a while.
Good luck. Sounds like a lovely horse otherwise.
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I know you have already spent a lot on this horse but I think the ulcer treatment is a drop in the overall bucket if it does in fact help the horse feel better. No point in saving pennies now.
I like the ear plug suggestion. There may be a sound that he hears but humans don’t and it doesn’t bother the other horses. I was riding a Marr in an indoor when suddenly she started acting spooky. Turns out someone started fishing near by and she could hear the zing in the fishing line. I didn’t hear a thing.
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This is an off the wall suggestion, but has the vet done a rectal? Specifically to look for tumors or some abnormalities?
Otherwise, I would second the idea of treating for hind gut ulcers. It might be expensive, but if it works, your problem is solved.
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Very interesting. Gelding helped my horse a lot but he still was an incorrigible stall walker and occasional self biter ( but not enough to inflict any wounds). I am certain his problem was that he was not wired right and not pain somewhere else. Not saying this is correct for all horses but it would be nice to know about equine family members.
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I know there have been a ton of ideas and suggestions and maybe I missed it. Can he be ridden more? That is a lot of stall time for a horse with his behaviors and it sounds like riding doesn’t stress him.
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I know you said you tried a “group turnout” situation but was it a group of 4 or more horses? I’d be looking for a large turnout pasture with at least 4 horses and if you can find a pasture situation that has several “subgroups” of horses, even better. Also look for a turnout group that has a good herd leader that keeps the herd in a loose bunch but not super tightly grouped.
The losing weight is concerning but I wouldn’t consider it the biggest issue - you need to get your horse to feel comfortable enough to come off high alert and rest.
My anxious older horse was super herd bound in the barn and did not lay down to sleep for years. I moved him to a 24/7 turnout retirement farm and he started sleeping outside the first week. He needed the reset of full turnout to get over his anxiety about possibly being “left alone” in his stall. He also needed a different herd dynamic - the one he left had no good leader and he would try to boss some of the others around without knowing how to be good at it.
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There are some complications with healing involving the spermatic cord that can happen. I hadn’t heard of self mutilation as being a response before, but that’s interesting.
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I seem to remember decades ago at the track someone was talking about their TB stallion having this problem and they kept a cradle on him to keep him from biting his flank, he must have had a mild case, others seem more violent, kicking, etc.:
Here is more:
