Self Mutilation in Horses

[CanteringCarrot]

I find the topic of self mutilation in horses somewhat interesting, but I wonder how many have really experienced it? Or what did you do to manage it?

My horse was gelded due to the fact that he self mutilated. He has scarring on his sides, flank, and by his sheath from biting himself.

I have only owned him as a gelding and I have only seen him do it twice over 3 months.

The first time he was out with his recently gelded pasturemate, and sniffed his own flank, bit at it, squealed and then moved along.

​​The second time, we had just finished some lunging and ground work. He became very relaxed standing in the center of the arena while I put poles away. He dropped, sniffed at himself, bit his flank, and squealed. So, not in a high stress situation, IMO.

I don’t think he does it much anymore, because he has no fresh wounds. He doesn’t display any care about going out alone or in a group. He is alone right now due to his buddy moving, so I’ll keep thst in mind.

I think the gelding pretty much alleviated the behavior, but I wonder if it becomes an OCD like thing, or old ingrained habit even if the initial triggers aren’t there.

​​​​​​He has never exhibited stud like behavior, herd bound behavior, or high stress. So, he seems like an unlikely candidate, but I don’t know his past life super well, aside from he did live out with other horses, and they tried to keep him a stallion as long as possible.

I’m interested to hear if others have experienced anything like this. I don’t view it as an issue with him but it is something I am aware of and will always monitor.

[Scribbler]

Well IME biting or rubbing to the point of skin damage is usually caused by pain or itching that the horse is trying to alleviate. They aren’t quite as precise as a dog or cat at grooming, and even a dog or cat can rub up.hot spots. Presumably your horse found sexual excitement or perhaps even just dropping to be painful or irritating or just bothersome! Perhaps there is a physical anomaly. Sounds much happier since he was gelded!

Did he ever breed live cover, and have you tried cleaning his sheath? If he attacks you or himself when you have a soapy hand up.there ID say there’s some anomaly.

[CanteringCarrot]

@Scribbler

Well IME biting or rubbing to the point of skin damage is usually caused by pain or itching that the horse is trying to alleviate. They aren’t quite as precise as a dog or cat at grooming, and even a dog or cat can rub up.hot spots. Presumably your horse found sexual excitement or perhaps even just dropping to be painful or irritating or just bothersome! Perhaps there is a physical anomaly. Sounds much happier since he was gelded!

Did he ever breed live cover, and have you tried cleaning his sheath? If he attacks you or himself when you have a soapy hand up.there ID say there’s some anomaly.

I don’t think he was ever involved in any breeding. If he was, the offspring was not registered.

I can touch his sheath, clean it, heck I think I could put my whole arm up there and he wouldn’t care. When he drops, he also is not hugely opposed to being handled. He just stands.

I’ve seen him drop many other times with no reaction.

I mean, I can have the vet look when he’s here for the flu shot, but I’ve not felt or seen anything abnormal on the actual part.

[Scribbler]

@CanteringCarrot

I don’t think he was ever involved in any breeding. If he was, the offspring was not registered.

I can touch his sheath, clean it, heck I think I could put my whole arm up there and he wouldn’t care. When he drops, he also is not hugely opposed to being handled. He just stands.

I’ve seen him drop many other times with no reaction.

I mean, I can have the vet look when he’s here for the flu shot, but I’ve not felt or seen anything abnormal on the actual part.

Ok so dropping doesn’t bother him.

Maybe he just couldn’t stand being a stallion with all those urges and no outlet.

I wasn’t thinking any obvious deformity but maybe something hurt when he got aroused with no outlet for it.

[csaper58]

@CanteringCarrot

I find the topic of self mutilation in horses somewhat interesting, but I wonder how many have really experienced it? Or what did you do to manage it?

My horse was gelded due to the fact that he self mutilated. He has scarring on his sides, flank, and by his sheath from biting himself.

I have only owned him as a gelding and I have only seen him do it twice over 3 months.

The first time he was out with his recently gelded pasturemate, and sniffed his own flank, bit at it, squealed and then moved along.

​​The second time, we had just finished some lunging and ground work. He became very relaxed standing in the center of the arena while I put poles away. He dropped, sniffed at himself, bit his flank, and squealed. So, not in a high stress situation, IMO.

I don’t think he does it much anymore, because he has no fresh wounds. He doesn’t display any care about going out alone or in a group. He is alone right now due to his buddy moving, so I’ll keep thst in mind.

I think the gelding pretty much alleviated the behavior, but I wonder if it becomes an OCD like thing, or old ingrained habit even if the initial triggers aren’t there.

​​​​​​He has never exhibited stud like behavior, herd bound behavior, or high stress. So, he seems like an unlikely candidate, but I don’t know his past life super well, aside from he did live out with other horses, and they tried to keep him a stallion as long as possible.

I’m interested to hear if others have experienced anything like this. I don’t view it as an issue with him but it is something I am aware of and will always monitor.

Stallions fight each other for the right to breed the mares. That is how nature intended it to work, and how it has worked for centuries before people interfered.

A vet I know, who runs a stallion station, believes it is the smell of testosterone/pheromones [their own or another stud’s] that trigger a primordial fighting response in some intact stallions.

If they don’t have another stallion to fight, and if they do not receive adequate, exhausting exercise [which releases soothing chemicals into the brain] they self mutilate.

The pheromones and the behavior disappear with gelding.

[keysfins]

I’m not so sure the behavior would be eliminated with gelding. As Scribbler notes, in horses, it can be in response to pain or discomfort. Remove the discomfort/pain, and the behavior should cease.

Self-mutilation in stallions is a displacement behavior, when a more normal behavior outlet is unavailable. It stems from frustration and/or aggression, and serves to take the place of male-male aggression, which is a high arousal state. Without another stallion (or gelding) to participate in the ritual that would occur when two stallions meet, the animal will direct squeals, biting and even striking or kicking, to itself.

Self-mutilation can continue, or even increase, after gelding, possibly as a form of stereotypy.

Dr. Sue McDonnell has written about self-mutilation. The OP may find some management strategies and possible treatment options from this article:

http://www.thehorse.com/articles/126…elf-mutilation

[CanteringCarrot]

@keysfins great article! I’ve done some reading here and there, and it seems like I am already doing a few things right when it comes to managing the condition.

I really think he rarely does it anymore because he never has open wounds, wet spots, disturbed hairs, etc. You should see his old scarring though! The vet didn’t know what to make of the marks, and noted they were old. I stumbled upon this conclusion of self mutilation via Google and seeing him bite himself once. Both times it has been one and done. Not multiple bitings/a full on episode like mentioned in the article.

I also feel like people around here are going to think I’m nuts if/when I tell them what the marks are from. I usually go, Idk, the bugs or mosquitos were really bad in Spain.

I have read some articles stating that gelding can eliminate or greatly minimize occurrences. However, I could see it becoming sort of habit like?

I don’t know, I just thought I could own a normal horse without some odd condition :lol:

[Kinda_Kooky]

I have experience with this. I leased a barn and the BO’s horse suffered from it. It was really annoying behavior.

A 9 yr old, APHA gelding, gelded as yearling, no stallion-like behaviors. Rather upright made with small feet, sound but not ridden or worked with as owners were newbies and had already fallen out of like. His build would indicate bucking was much easier for him than rearing would be, the backend was much lighter than the front.

For almost 2 years I tried EVERYTHING to help him. 24/7 Grass hay, alfalfa, no alfalfa, ulcer treatment, trying to prevent behavior by tying him up, moving him to a different pen, more horse friends, less horse friends, no horse friends, a llama, no llama, a pair of goats, no goats, toys, desperation bribes, working through what seemed to be the triggers in hand…and probably some other things I have left out.

When I would pull up to the barn, he would start to buck and bite his sides. BOs insisted he was fed first and to give alfalfa to distract him if he started his thing. He immediately got his alfalfa and never was out of grass hay. He would buck and side bite when I had horses out to work with. He would buck and bite when horses were on the walker. He would buck and bite when you rode another horse off the property. He would buck and bite if you brought a horse trailer onto the property. And according to the owners, sometimes, when all was still and quiet, in the middle of the night, he would still buck and bite.

It was pretty much his go to response to everything. He did not tear skin very often, but he did give himself quite a workout. His bite areas would get irritated and attract flies and after applying swat, he soon looked to be wearing pink lipstick. That was the only humorous part about it.

It really seemed as though this was his way of forcing his will. If he started a fit, he either got fed or immediate attention from me.

I felt so liberated when I left that place, no more being controlled by Sir Bitey McBucksAlot. My empathy started to turn towards resentment when I would constantly have to stop what I was doing to try to appease him (or get texts from owners if I was not immediate, they were content to peer out the window endlessly instead of being proactive themselves…“he needs more alfalfa”…even if he had a tub full of it).

He ended up getting placed through a friend of mine, just a couple of days after I moved my horses out. The new owners were not so sympathetic to his plight, and ignored the behavior completely. He lives/lived with 2 other horses in a backyard situation and does/did get ridden some and messed with. He still did his thing, but there is no longer a servant running to him with alfalfa when he does it. (This took place years ago, not sure of his status now)

The conclusion I arrived at, was that this horse in particular was an A hole. Without extensive, expensive diagnostics it is the only conclusion I could get to.

[keysfins]

@Kinda Kooky

I have experience with this. I leased a barn and the BO’s horse suffered from it. It was really annoying behavior.

A 9 yr old, APHA gelding, gelded as yearling, no stallion-like behaviors. Rather upright made with small feet, sound but not ridden or worked with as owners were newbies and had already fallen out of like. His build would indicate bucking was much easier for him than rearing would be, the backend was much lighter than the front.

For almost 2 years I tried EVERYTHING to help him. 24/7 Grass hay, alfalfa, no alfalfa, ulcer treatment, trying to prevent behavior by tying him up, moving him to a different pen, more horse friends, less horse friends, no horse friends, a llama, no llama, a pair of goats, no goats, toys, desperation bribes, working through what seemed to be the triggers in hand…and probably some other things I have left out.

When I would pull up to the barn, he would start to buck and bite his sides. BOs insisted he was fed first and to give alfalfa to distract him if he started his thing. He immediately got his alfalfa and never was out of grass hay. He would buck and side bite when I had horses out to work with. He would buck and bite when horses were on the walker. He would buck and bite when you rode another horse off the property. He would buck and bite if you brought a horse trailer onto the property. And according to the owners, sometimes, when all was still and quiet, in the middle of the night, he would still buck and bite.

It was pretty much his go to response to everything. He did not tear skin very often, but he did give himself quite a workout. His bite areas would get irritated and attract flies and after applying swat, he soon looked to be wearing pink lipstick. That was the only humorous part about it.

It really seemed as though this was his way of forcing his will. If he started a fit, he either got fed or immediate attention from me.

I felt so liberated when I left that place, no more being controlled by Sir Bitey McBucksAlot. My empathy started to turn towards resentment when I would constantly have to stop what I was doing to try to appease him (or get texts from owners if I was not immediate, they were content to peer out the window endlessly instead of being proactive themselves…“he needs more alfalfa”…even if he had a tub full of it).

He ended up getting placed through a friend of mine, just a couple of days after I moved my horses out. The new owners were not so sympathetic to his plight, and ignored the behavior completely. He lives/lived with 2 other horses in a backyard situation and does/did get ridden some and messed with. He still did his thing, but there is no longer a servant running to him with alfalfa when he does it. (This took place years ago, not sure of his status now)

The conclusion I arrived at, was that this horse in particular was an A hole. Without extensive, expensive diagnostics it is the only conclusion I could get to.

Not knowing details, it almost sounds like the horse was rewarded for the behavior.

[Kinda_Kooky]

He WAS rewarded for the behavior. :mad: His owners were insistent and unrelenting about it and it was one of the many ridiculous conditions of my barn lease. The situation went against everything I would have done if he were mine.

It was an exasperating experience. Owners would not listen to reason about further diagnostics or better behavior modifications. Tying him up or trying a new friend or food distraction was it.

It was 3 or 4 years after Sir BiteyBucks had been in his new home that I had last heard he was still doing his thing. The owners were still not reacting to him at that time. I am sure his prior owners and myself did more harm to the habit than good by catering to it.

This issue was one of many with these particular barn owners. I needed a temporary place to lease while purchasing a horse property. My extended stay in crazy town is one I will never forget, I am so glad I have my own place now!