Self-policing is not working

[Peggy]

@NotOK

also really don’t like the argument that if lame horses aren’t permitted to show there will be more thrown away or slaughtered.

This might happen. Or they will be shown on local circuits where there are mostly zero drug regulations (California is an exception since the state does drug testing; there may be others). Or end up in a non-show program, or as a practice horse for someone who shows. Or become a lesson horse. Or get sent to an auction, possibly ending up in one of the above scenarios. Or get nerved. Or get retired or semi-retired. Or get euthanized (I’m distinguishing euthanasia from slaughter, with the latter occurring in a slaughterhouse).

If the OP’s hypothesis is that the horses that are shown lame or medicated are owned or controlled by people who don’t care, it would follow that that these same people would be likely to dump the horse.

[TheJenners]

@NotOK

I am over all the horse abuse BS that is rampant in the horse world, but especially in the HJ world.

@NotOK

I have not made blanket statements.

Okay

[TheJenners]

@Janet

It is a little hard to judge in a moving image with the horse under tack, but that horse is at least an 8 (noticeable crease down the back), in a score that goes from 1 to 9.

If that’s an eight, I have some 10s trotting around at home It isn’t just the booty, you have to judge the whole horse and it has a wee neck, not seeing a lot of jiggle in the flank or shoulder either.

[millerra]

So, this is an excellent point
Wanderlust-
“No one is saying they can’t “stay sound without bute shots.” I give my horses banamine and occasionally robaxin at shows, mostly because at home they are used to many hours of grass turnout to stretch and roll, reduce stocking up, etc. They get none of that at shows and while I get them out to hand graze or tack walk as much as possible, it’s still hours less a day than they are used to.”

Do folks here calling out H/J folks for “drugging” does this count? It’s giving meds (drugs) at a show. It is legal if done properly. Do people consider this cheating?

OR

Is it good horse management because you are reducing pain/inflammation/stiffness because the horses’ have limited turnout and are working/jumping reasonably hard?

[Being someone who has given bute after cross country, especially when the ground is hard, w/ the proper window of time before show jumping, I could consider this simply good horse management]

[Janet]

@millerra

So, this is an excellent point {referring to Wanderlust’s post about banamine/robaxin- wish I knew how to quote}

Do folks here calling out H/J folks for “drugging” does this count? It’s giving meds (drugs) at a show. It is legal if done properly. Do people consider this cheating?

I don’t consider it “cheating”. But I do consider it poor horse management.
If I needed to give my horse Robaxin and Banamine to be comfortable at multi-day shows, I would stop taking that horse to multi-day shows.

[trubandloki]

@millerra

wish I knew how to quote

Quoting is one of the easier to use features on this forum.

Great instructions on how to quote, and so many other things can be found here:

FAQ -- Tips for Using the Site

Here is a walk-through of many of the Discourse (our new Forums platform) features available, and below is an FAQ with help for specific questions. Also, here’s a YouTube video that provides a walkthrough of some features if you’d like to check that out. General Board FAQs

How do I log out?

Click your avatar in the upper right corner, then click your username. Click logout. [how do l log out]

How do I logout and log back in with a different username?

The forum pulls your user credentials f…

Here are the instructions on quoting:

@Simkie

How do I quote?

Discourse has a couple options to quote a post. The easiest way is to highlight the info you’d like to quote. A “quote” button will pop up:

Click the “quote” button and the info will be quoted in your reply window:

Another option to quote a post:

Click the “Reply” button on the post you’d like to quote:

Then click the speech bubble at the top of the reply window to quote:

[showy]

@millerra

Is it good horse management because you are reducing pain/inflammation/stiffness because the horses’ have limited turnout and are working/jumping reasonably hard?

[Being someone who has given bute after cross country, especially when the ground is hard, w/ the proper window of time before show jumping, I could consider this simply good horse management]

I’ll go. I give bute and methocarbonal to my teenaged jumpers after they show. I consider it good care. They are sound and regularly looked at by a vet. They do not show two days in a row but yeah hunter jumper shows are set up so you have to be there a while.

I don’t think that’s “over drugging” a horse by any means. It’s a reasonable amount within the legal limits. Drug tested many times. No issues.

I do have issue with pumping the horse so full of drugs that it masks lameness. I think that takes a lot of bute and methocarbonal.

[millerra]

Thanks - I tried

[erinmeri]

@millerra

Thanks - I tried

The quote function stopped working for me in a recent update. I highlight the text, and instead of clicking on “quote”, I click the reply button and it quotes it.

[fivestrideline]

@showy

I give bute and methocarbonal to my teenaged jumpers after they show. I consider it good care.

This would be similar to me taking some Advil or other common low risk med after I horse show. Preventative and keeps me from getting sore and uncomfortable due to the change in routine and harder demands on my body vs chores and riding around at home.

I also consider it perfectly fine, as long as it’s legal! I look like a cripple getting off a plane or after wearing hard flat shoes all day. Much like standing in a show stall and walking on the hard footing between rings

[dags]

@Janet

If I needed to give my horse Robaxin and Banamine to be comfortable at multi-day shows, I would stop taking that horse to multi-day shows.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten up in the middle of the night because I forgot to take advil after a strenuous work out and my muscles simply Will Not Shut Up and therefore I am clearly not going to get any sleep that night.

Then you have the show stalls too frequently built on concrete pads that are unforgiving no matter how much bedding you pile on top. I’m of the “2G bute every horse, every night” generation. Not because they would go lame without it, but so it could soothe recently worked muscles and allow the horses to actually get some rest while spending nights in tiny boxes with concrete floors.

[Janet]

@erinmeri

The quote function stopped working for me in a recent update

It is working for me. Used the “quote” click in this reply.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Janet

If I needed to give my horse Robaxin and Banamine to be comfortable at multi-day shows, I would stop taking that horse to multi-day shows.

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

[trubandloki]

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

All I know is, I need to take some advil after a show day. I am glad I am allowed to do that.

[Janet]

@dags

Then you have the show stalls too frequently built on concrete pads that are unforgiving no matter how much bedding you pile on top.

I’m of the generation/opinion that, if the stalls are “tiny boxes with concrete floors”, I don’t go to that show. But that is me. My income and ego are not dependent on going to lots of shows, so I can “afford” to be fussy. ( My stalls at home have concrete floors, but they are large and have rubber mats and lots of bedding. Also, except when on stall rest, the horses have free access in and out.)

[Janet]

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

Do you realize that you are just confirming the OPs opinion of H/J shows?

[vxf111]

Me too

[trubandloki]

@Janet

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

Do you realize that you are just confirming the OPs opinion of H/J shows?

If she is that upset about a hard working animal getting a bute then there are more problems with her than even her posts imply.

[quietann]

@NotOK

There is no reason that there could not be a vet to clear the horses to show by having them trot a little circle under saddle each way

Um… see any number of posts about the growing shortage of large animal vets.

[dags]

@Janet

I’m of the generation/opinion that, if the stalls are “tiny boxes with concrete floors”, I don’t go to that show.

Any size stall is a “tiny box” when you put a horse in it. Turnout would be the best solution for sore muscles but that has only recently become an option at some shows (and they’re rarely big enough to inspire continuous movement). Concrete pads? I dunno what the new single-use facilities are built on, but the string of multi-purpose expo centers and concrete fairgrounds that have supported this sport for decades are the only show options for many parts of the country (and aren’t the brand new KY HP stalls on concrete?) And yes, I did eventually begin hauling rubber mats with me but good grief they are such a pain.

2G bute is not the overarching problem in this industry, but it is a valid explanation for filled sharps boxes.