Self-policing is not working

[showy]

@millerra

Is it good horse management because you are reducing pain/inflammation/stiffness because the horses’ have limited turnout and are working/jumping reasonably hard?

[Being someone who has given bute after cross country, especially when the ground is hard, w/ the proper window of time before show jumping, I could consider this simply good horse management]

I’ll go. I give bute and methocarbonal to my teenaged jumpers after they show. I consider it good care. They are sound and regularly looked at by a vet. They do not show two days in a row but yeah hunter jumper shows are set up so you have to be there a while.

I don’t think that’s “over drugging” a horse by any means. It’s a reasonable amount within the legal limits. Drug tested many times. No issues.

I do have issue with pumping the horse so full of drugs that it masks lameness. I think that takes a lot of bute and methocarbonal.

[millerra]

Thanks - I tried

[erinmeri]

@millerra

Thanks - I tried

The quote function stopped working for me in a recent update. I highlight the text, and instead of clicking on “quote”, I click the reply button and it quotes it.

[fivestrideline]

@showy

I give bute and methocarbonal to my teenaged jumpers after they show. I consider it good care.

This would be similar to me taking some Advil or other common low risk med after I horse show. Preventative and keeps me from getting sore and uncomfortable due to the change in routine and harder demands on my body vs chores and riding around at home.

I also consider it perfectly fine, as long as it’s legal! I look like a cripple getting off a plane or after wearing hard flat shoes all day. Much like standing in a show stall and walking on the hard footing between rings

[dags]

@Janet

If I needed to give my horse Robaxin and Banamine to be comfortable at multi-day shows, I would stop taking that horse to multi-day shows.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten up in the middle of the night because I forgot to take advil after a strenuous work out and my muscles simply Will Not Shut Up and therefore I am clearly not going to get any sleep that night.

Then you have the show stalls too frequently built on concrete pads that are unforgiving no matter how much bedding you pile on top. I’m of the “2G bute every horse, every night” generation. Not because they would go lame without it, but so it could soothe recently worked muscles and allow the horses to actually get some rest while spending nights in tiny boxes with concrete floors.

[Janet]

@erinmeri

The quote function stopped working for me in a recent update

It is working for me. Used the “quote” click in this reply.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Janet

If I needed to give my horse Robaxin and Banamine to be comfortable at multi-day shows, I would stop taking that horse to multi-day shows.

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

[trubandloki]

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

All I know is, I need to take some advil after a show day. I am glad I am allowed to do that.

[Janet]

@dags

Then you have the show stalls too frequently built on concrete pads that are unforgiving no matter how much bedding you pile on top.

I’m of the generation/opinion that, if the stalls are “tiny boxes with concrete floors”, I don’t go to that show. But that is me. My income and ego are not dependent on going to lots of shows, so I can “afford” to be fussy. ( My stalls at home have concrete floors, but they are large and have rubber mats and lots of bedding. Also, except when on stall rest, the horses have free access in and out.)

[Janet]

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

Do you realize that you are just confirming the OPs opinion of H/J shows?

[vxf111]

Me too

[trubandloki]

@Janet

@Tha_Ridge

So you just wiped out probably 90% of H/J horse show entries in the US. Common practice. Not a darn thing wrong with it.

Do you realize that you are just confirming the OPs opinion of H/J shows?

If she is that upset about a hard working animal getting a bute then there are more problems with her than even her posts imply.

[quietann]

@NotOK

There is no reason that there could not be a vet to clear the horses to show by having them trot a little circle under saddle each way

Um… see any number of posts about the growing shortage of large animal vets.

[dags]

@Janet

I’m of the generation/opinion that, if the stalls are “tiny boxes with concrete floors”, I don’t go to that show.

Any size stall is a “tiny box” when you put a horse in it. Turnout would be the best solution for sore muscles but that has only recently become an option at some shows (and they’re rarely big enough to inspire continuous movement). Concrete pads? I dunno what the new single-use facilities are built on, but the string of multi-purpose expo centers and concrete fairgrounds that have supported this sport for decades are the only show options for many parts of the country (and aren’t the brand new KY HP stalls on concrete?) And yes, I did eventually begin hauling rubber mats with me but good grief they are such a pain.

2G bute is not the overarching problem in this industry, but it is a valid explanation for filled sharps boxes.

[findeight]

Most stalls in the states I’ve shown in have been on concrete. Quite a few in multi use facilities that host most of the shows have been available to me. Hauling mats was never an option.

[Tackpud]

@millerra

Do folks here calling out H/J folks for “drugging” does this count? It’s giving meds (drugs) at a show. It is legal if done properly. Do people consider this cheating?

So therapeutic medications used within the drugs and medication legal limits are beneficial to normal horses working at shows. Drugging to affect performance is not legal and is cheating. At least that’s how I distinguish it in my mind - but I’m sure someone will have a differing opinion.

[TimeForAHorse]

Wait a minute - I just jumped into this thread and I’m not really from H/J land anyways, so this is just an honest question but - are you saying, in the capacity of a steward, you can ID a horse you personally consider lame but hesitate to eliminate them due to fear of being sued?? Is that not a massive problem/failure of the sport to regulate itself??

[Tha_Ridge]

@dags

I dunno what the new single-use facilities are built on, but the string of multi-purpose expo centers and fairgrounds that have supported this sport for decades are the only show options for many parts of the country (and aren’t the brand new KY HP stalls on concrete?) And yes, I did eventually begin hauling rubber mats with me but good grief they are such a pain .

Not to go off on too much of a tangent, but Kentucky at least offers mat rentals through Dever. But if you want to bring your own, I saw someone using these last year KHP and thought it was genius: https://amzn.to/3O98IKw

[Tackpud]

@TimeForAHorse

Wait a minute - I just jumped into this thread and I’m not really from H/J land anyways, so this is just an honest question but - are you saying, in the capacity of a steward, you can ID a horse you personally consider lame but hesitate to eliminate them due to fear of being sued?? Is that not a massive problem/failure of the sport to regulate itself??

No - as a steward I cannot eliminate a horse from the competition ring. That is the judge’s ring and I cannot interfere. I can ask the competition vet to go with me to a competitor if a judge has a concern about a horse’s fitness for the ring. I am not a vet and do not want my opinion on soundness to be the reason for a horse’s elimination - vets go to school to have the experience and knowledge to do this. As a steward, even one with a ton of horse experience who can see a lameness with one eye closed, I am not putting myself in the middle of that conversation. That’s not my job as steward.

[Willesdon]

@trubandloki

All I know is, I need to take some advil after a show day. I am glad I am allowed to do that.

Look up the side effects and contraindications of Advil (Ibuprofen) and you might not be quite so keen to take it habitually. A very good drug but in moderation.