Self-policing is not working

Those look great, if they would hold up? I used the heavy anti-fatigue mats with drainage holes (think they’re for restaurant kitchens). Which, while lighter than a typical stall mat, were yet another awkward/heavy item to haul around, set up, and then put away at the end of a long week.

How is taking some Advil after a show day = habitually?

Add that all medications (well really everything, not just medications) have adverse side effects.
Have you ever read the long list of side effects in the birth control pill package. Very scary. But here we are all thinking it is a great thing.

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I run a dressage barn, and can confirm the only meds we give are Equioxx (and Thyro L to one). However, we do injections as called for and Legend/Adequan.

2 g of bute is quite a lot, IMO. My vet has never had me give that much for wounds. And NSAID stacking is illegal. Banamine is something we give for colics.

We have had the odd horse on a calming supplement, but they don’t seem to do anything.

Ulcerguard is just smart for the horse prone to ulcers, I don’t really consider that a “drug” at shows.

I do find it odd that my tiny barn, with 2-3 horses at 3 dressage shows this year, has been drug tested three times, and some of you are at 20 HJ shows per year and get tested once a decade. I think USEF needs to up its game at HJ shows. Why aren’t they testing more? It seems like the eventers here are tested more too. That makes no sense!

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I love this!

Our barn is tested every show. AA H/J shows, mostly, some A, we usually travel with 20-25 horses.

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I’ve been following this whole thread as an admittedly biased eventer and just throwing my two cents in here—I understand why stewards wouldn’t eliminate, but I truly do wish there was something akin to a ground jury in the H/J context other than the judges.

I’m not even close to being a lameness expert but I’ve been to enough jogs (for both eventing and pure SJ) to be able to understand and appreciate why a horse gets spun. It’s hard to argue with it when you’re standing in a crowd of people and nearly everyone is muttering “That hind left just doesn’t look quite right.” A lot of times it’s subtle but there’s a noticeable difference between the ones that are spun and those that aren’t, and no one pitches a fit (or at least, not often) because everyone knows it’s just part of the sport (especially at the upper levels).

Edited because I hit post too early :sweat_smile:

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There are a lot of HJ shows on this list of the shows tested in 2022; Unfortunately it’s a PDF, as opposed to a spread sheet so not sortable, and they don’t list disciplines. https://www.usef.org/forms-pubs/VWMSsClZ65U/2022-usef-tested-competitions

Statistically, assuming it’s one tester per show, you are likelier to get tested at a given dressage show where the tester shows up because the number of horses is smaller on average for dressage shows.

Thinking about horses I’ve had tested (a small N). Dressage two times, but one of those was a California tester, not a USEF tester. HJ also twice, but one was a California tester at a local show.

In 20 years, never had a horse tested at USEF Jump Canada shows in the hunters. In the barns I’ve been at only two horses were ever tested. Not a lot of testing going on based on my experience.

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Good to hear they have that option now…man, thats alot of mats, place is huge.

My horses got tested every year or so.

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2g of Bute is not quite a lot. It is a therapeutic dose for most adult horses. 4g is a lot and generally the upper limit a vet will give at once for a serious pain issue.

I don’t think I would want a new group of people tasked with being the lameness police. The example of the stringhalt horse is a good one (knew a highly successful jr hunter with stringhalt many years ago). And what is the level of lameness where we want to disqualify a horse? 3/5? 2/5? Will people truly know what that means clinically? I use a teaching hospital for a lot of lameness stuff, and when quizzed, there’s a lot of disagreement among the residents and the vet students compared to the head vet a lot of the time. Even experienced vets won’t always agree unless it’s a pretty bad lameness. On the flip side, some will call nearly everything at least a mild positive. I might want that vet at a PPE I’m doing but not at the horse show. Especially if you are also going to say the older horse that’s been standing in a box can warm up before it’s judged on soundness. Who is going to police the warmup?

My horse just tweaked something behind (it’s been a very long rehab and he’s fat and having a hard time with it…he’s a 7+ BCS though y’all would think he’s an 11), and it took a while to get a vet appointment. I kept tack walking him in the meantime and occasionally trotted a straight line to see if there was any change while I waited for the vet. He was a good 3/5 on the right hind, and hardly anyone at my barn other than a couple of trainers thought he looked off at all. I might trot him a little and be like, yeah he’s still really off, and someone would say, oh he looks pretty good to me! I guess because there was no head bob?

Logistics aside, I don’t think just anyone with a weekend course or something could do this nor should they. And it’s probably why these horses aren’t being excused. I’d honestly rather see more riders and trainers know what lameness looks and feels like so they can address it at home.

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This whole thread got me thinking. I don’t disagree with the issues the OP brings up about horse sport. I think lack of knowledge is a problem for sure. And anytime we humans get too hungry for accolades we are in danger of forgetting that our partner is a living being who has no choice in the matter. My relationship with showing and my own animals has evolved some over the years. I definitely try to be more empathetic and more responsible to their needs, emotions and well being than ever before. I savor the real partnership and mutual respect that develops when you listen to each other. I also expect a trust and respect in return from my animals. This, to me, is just as rewarding as every blue ribbon on the planet. Would I also enjoy some of those? Absolutely. But maybe we all need to look at the whole big picture more. Many already do, I know. But the goal of constantly becoming a better horseperson, not just a rider or competitor, seems to be getting a bit lost in today’s economic and cultural market.

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Such a person exists.

Said person is called a veterinary surgeon. The same person I already told you about who has 8 years of higher education and 5 years of house officer training. Tackpud is correct that opening this responsibility to lay people is inappropriate, against the veterinary practice act in most if not all states, and would result in lawsuits.

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It’s actually not a lot of bute. Also, the rule of thumb is that bute is better for bony issues and banamine for soft tissue and colics. From an Equus article by a DVM: “Banamine isn’t just for colic. Because it targets soft tissue with its anti-inflammatory action, it’s also a good choice for lameness caused by injuries to tendons, muscles or ligaments. Again, the goal is twofold: control the horse’s pain, but also keep in check the inflammatory processes that can impede healing.”

And I’ve seen zero mention of nsaid stacking here - not only is it illegal, it’s horrible for your horse’s stomach.

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I will put my horse management up against the very best in any discipline and I assure you it will not be found lacking.

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I don’t think those mats would hold up to hooves/shoes but even more so urine…

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The worst longeing I have personally witnessed is when the dressage people
Come to WEC Ocala. Holy cow. Tiny circles. Hot horses. Tack flying.

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Thank you! I was going to mention occasionally giving Banamine for one that is muscle sore. But considering the pearl-clutching over a gram or two of bute, I figured I oughta skip :wink:

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This. Some people see these management practices as over kill. I see it as maintaining athletes as they should be maintained. Hell some people can’t be bothered to inject sticky arthritic joints on a show horse, meanwhile I’m doing Pro-Stride and Arthramid injections on broodmares who don’t even have to carry their own babies :sweat_smile: I just wish someone would inject/pulse/shock wave my achey joints, and maybe toss me a small amount of bute on occasion…

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A blanket stamenent would be if I said “everyone” is “all”. I did not. And I stand by it is rampant.

Yeah, and it should not be an acceptable part of the culture. USEF should not be complicit in it by having entire divisions where many of these poor broken horses end up. The national body should have much higher standards. Set a good example at the top.

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