I just realized this poster joined for the sheer joy of creating this thread.
Ew.
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Listen, I am good friends with a couple of vets. Off the record they complain about all the drugs the HJ crowd gives. They are not out there telling people, âSince you show so much you should give your horse 2 ccs of bute each night, robaxin, and throw in so Dex if you want a calm hunter. Donât forget the Perfect Prep.â Also, many barns have stockpiles of these drugs. They give them to all or almost all the horses in their care because. Is this because they are so good at horse management. No, it is because it is a part of the HJ show culture which abuses drugs so they can show, show , show. The vets often donât know or prescribe exactly what these horses are getting. There are vets who hand out drugs like Michael Jacksonâs doctor handed out whatever the hell it was that killed him. There are also people using things that arenât approved but they canât or donât test for.
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2 grams of bute given orally is the low end of the dosing range, just FYI. Anyone can look that up in Plumbâs to verify if you donât believe me.
Yâall carry on letting OP grind her axe though, she must have a lot of wood chopping she needs to do and itâs kind of you to help her out!
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Right and this is part of the HJ culture. Show, show, show and drug, drug, drug. Many people inside it see nothing wrong with it. The USEF allows it. Many people in other disciplines have no idea this is going on and would agree with me that it is not good for horse welfare or horse management.
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One of the problems is the use of permitted medicine on horses that shouldnât or donât need that medicine but are given it because it is part of the culture or âstandard practiceâ. There is a difference between an older arthritic horse getting NSAIDs that a vet determines are in its best interest and HJ people giving them to their âsoundâ horses every night of a show because this is what we do. The average well managed horse should not need NSAIDs and muscle relaxants and steroids and whatever else to compete well. There is something wrong with this culture if that is considered ânormalâ or acceptable. There is also the reality that many of these horses are still not sound even with this management. However, they are shown and almost never eliminated
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Decades ago, there was this mare in a hunter/jumper stable that was a great hunter, regularly made high point working hunter.
She had navicular and was dead lame without her bute on board.
She would have been just as crippled if she had been a pasture ornament.
Her vets used to say, she is better in light work, is keeping her arthritic changes to a minimum, better than just walking around and standing in a pasture all day.
She was managed with light riding and shown just enough for points.
Since the nutrition basis was alfalfa, buffering the bute, she was a happy little camper all around.
Now, many older horses can live nicely if that is their situation and showing is for them just part of life.
Many humans live on Aleve for their arthritis and keep going to their offices and doing their jobs and participating in activities and no one decries they are medicated or they donât function well either.
If those humans would sit at home, their arthritis would just get worse in a hurry.
Similar for a large portion of older horses, is how life is.
Once we were working cattle and this old cowboy on an old horse came to help.
I kept looking as his horse was gimpy on a front leg, but seemed fine, didnât act like it was in pain.
The cowboy saw me looking and said, yes, he had a hitch in his get-a-long, so did he on a bad hip.
The horseâs vet had said to just keep riding him, he needs the exercise, unless he gets worse, then to call him.
I was young and kind of offended that someone would ride a lame horse, until I reflected for a bit and, well, a vet really does know best, my opinion was not wanted there.
I still was thinking, I just would not ride a lame horse and never had to, but understand that we can have our opinions and those when they differ from others maybe come from not quite knowing what we donât know.
I think that is what so many posters are trying to point to, we are not vets, there is a range of suitable for the intended use, for medications to support when needed, organizations that are making rules according to those already.
Are Hunter/jumper shows abusing horses right and left as the OP keeps insisting?
Maybe a little more nuanced opinion would work best, if we go by what is best for horses first and understand that our opinions may not be that valid, especially when based on hearsay and applying them to any and all, as the OP ones sound.
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If you compete at rated dressage shows, there are sharps containers there. Itâs required. 25+ years ago, I saw a lot of routine NSAID use at shows by the barn. I know because I had to be sure my horse was off the medication list when I would trailer in and do full care, because I had a horse that didnât need any NSAIDs and my vet preferred he get some Robaxin on multi day shows, which I gave to him myself. Most of the time, it was given well outside of the 12hour limit, and as another poster pointed out, the aim was more to aid in recovery from that day, not trying to mask anything the next day. Not a lot different from icing and poulticing and hoof packing. At least we are aware of the side effects now and can give gastric support. Which the horse probably needs anyway being stalled so much at a show.
I know a lot of the same people take a more personal and thoughtful approach to medicating these days. Like, if the horse just had a hack, maybe he doesnât need anything but a hand walk and standing wraps. Especially as more time is spent at some venues without breaks to be at home. These same programs are also buying or leasing farms in areas where they show a lot so horses can be rotated âhomeâ for some turnout and rest.
Giving allowed medications to a sound horse during multi day shows is a completely different thing than drugging lame horses and knowingly competing lame horses. And if many people donât have an eye for lameness, as youâve said, how do you know they are all âknowinglyâ competing lame horses? There are ignorant people, oblivious people, and people who do things a certain way just because, and there are cheats too, but I think youâve lost sight of what reform you are really looking for here.
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This might be the funniest post so far. You think the parents - some of whom are whining about having to watch a Safesport video intended to help them keep their kids safe - are going to watch a horse welfare training video? 
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Ok. What I am objecting to is that is is standard practice in many barns (as a few of you have confirmed) to give HJ horses drugs at shows. All of these horses are not older arthritic ones or ones with other ailments that a vet has said would best be supported with a little help. And those of you who state it is under a vets care and direction that each and every one of these horses are given these drugs is full of crap. Barns are giving Dex for off label use, not to help with hives or asthma or anything. The vet is not examining each horse and giving instructions that good horse management dictates that each and every horse in their barn get Dex, or bute, or Robaxin or whatever else. I know how easy the drugs are to get. I know the medicine cabinet that some of these barns have full of drugs. Many of the trainers are playing vet here. I know this first hand, not hearsay.
I also hold firmly that giving a young sound horse bute, Robaxin , Dex or whatever else is bad management. However, this has forever been part of the hj culture. It just is. Good management would be showing less. Good management would be not showing until you are a good enough rider not to need to have a sedated horse. Good management is at least 15 minutes of a walk warm up and cool down, not just trotting half way around the arena, picking up a canter, jumping to warm up, showing and handing your horse back to a groom who will stick him back in his little box.
Riding a lame horse over fences for multiple shows for multiple days weeks at a time is not OK. USEF should not support this. I am not saying it is never ok to ride an arthritic horse or a horse with certain issues, but if even with all the âmanagementâ that HJ people do, he is still lame, he should not be in USEF shows going over fences.
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Yes, if it is the price to play, they will.
Just curious, what part of the world are you talking about (that you live that has huge shows)? (Generalization is fine)
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Our horses live (sadly uncommon) similar lives. My horse does 3-4 classes a show, and gets banamine (in Canada) and Robaxin (states) after each show day.
Sheâs used to being turned out all day on grass when home, so the shows are a stark difference.
Someone also mentioned windpuffs upthread - my horse is a European import who did eventing. She also has pronounced windpuffs behind and I do ice, then poultice. Thatâs my horseâs entire show care routine.
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By âWeâ do you mean you and your barn or are you speaking for the entire Dressage community?
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I am not the OP, but I THINK her point is that she wants the governing body to CHANGE the âestablished guidelinesâ.
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How do you propose they do this âlameness trainingâ for the parents or competitors. As someone who develops elearning- something as hands on as a lameness evaluation is, is not conducive to elearning. A 100% completion mark on an elearning does not make one qualified to evaluate lameness. Head bobbing lameness- sure easy to see. Subtle lameness- no. So would you make a participant or parent take an in person class. Would it need to be taken annually? Are you just going to make the H/Jers take it as they are so obviously lame-blind compared to every other discipline? /s How would the process for parent/participant reporting be done? You want solutions- come up with them.
I truly do understand your concern- but your aggressive delivery wonât get you very far. Iâm thinking @TheJenners may be correct in that you are doing this on purpose to wind people up⊠or you donât see how you come across.
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I think OP is trolling but also holds an aggressive disdain for a discipline they do not participate in or particularly understand. Iâd be shocked if they compete heavily in any discipline, given the lack of real understanding of governing bodies, and asking for completely unattainable and unrealistic change. And also clearly not going through the regular channels in a manner that would spark good discussion.
This whole thing belongs on Facebook or TikTok, where uneducated keyboard warriors abound, as well as the black and white arguments lacking nuance and basis in reality.
I think a lot of the base concerns are valid. But everything else has been frankly wild.
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Canât resist chiming in with a couple of points:
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Perfect Prep is a USEF sponsor. Just saying.
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In my experience with vets, I have found they are very reluctant to give owners/trainers bad news. I canât blame them for that. But their reticence can be a problem. In my own case, a sports vet told me my horseâs stifles were her weak point and we would support her with annual treatments of PRP. On asking for and finally getting the vetâs notes, I found that she suspected an injury to the meniscus was possible, but sheâd never mentioned it to me. You really have to say âGive it to me straight!â and read the vetâs notes, but I suspect that most amateur owners donât do either, and just baby horses along without realizing that they may be doing harm.
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Agreed. I would be shocked if this person actually competes at I-2 as they claimed.
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Those of us showing FEI donât give our horses NSAIDs at shows or anywhere near to the date we will show. My horse only gets Banamine with vaccines due to a history of reaction. Of course dressage barns us NSAIDs, some more than others. In my experience Previcoxx is preferred over bute. Bute is out of favor with most dressage people I know mostly because Previcoxx is touted as being less likely to have bad side effects. However, and this is a big one, it is not part of the dressage culture to give our horses NSAIDs at shows even if the horse is a lower-level horse. I have not heard of any dressage person saying, I give my horse 2 grams of bute every night at shows and I through in some Robaxin too.
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LOL, not only do I compete in Intermediare II, I have trained this horse and others from unstarted or barely started to FEI. (All without the use of NSAIDs, muscles relaxants, and steroids I might add).
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