Self-policing is not working

[NotOK]

Yes, but my wild approach has gotten nearly 350 responses. Some of you have even admitted that you think it is OK to show lame horses and that it is standard practice to give NSAIDs and muscle relaxants to horses at shows even if they are not lame. At the end of the day, people are talking about this, so in my mind it is a win. Talking is better than nothing.

I do have a disdain for the HJ world, because I think the culture is broken and counter to horse welfare. It is my business because I must be a part of USEF to compete in the dressage shows I do. Otherwise, I could just chalk HJ up to the other disciplines like barrel racing, WP, racing or whatever that you all are saying are worse offenders.

[NotOK]

Videos could be used to educate people on lameness. It is not going to be a comprehensive thing to the degree that they would be able to make a living diagnosing horses afterwards. It would be more general, like the material we have to do for Safesport. It could show cases of front and hind leg lameness and educated the viewer on things like a shortened stride, being worse on a circle, a hip hike, a head bob, etc. It could discuss the importance of properly warming and cooling down a horse; the dangers and ethical questionability of using drugs, etc. At the end of the course, the viewer would have to pass a test where they identify whether or not a horse is lame and if it is a front or hind limb. These examples would not be subtle but obvious cases of obvious, as in the ones my non-horsey spouse can point out to me reliably. This would be a small start to changing a culture that has many members who don’t see lameness or turn a blind eye.

[NotOK]

Yes, exactly. Thank you. The established guidelines allow for way too much abuse.

[NotOK]

I wanted to add that it is disingenuous of those of you in the know to pretend as if muscles relaxants and steroids (Dex) are given to the hunters by concerned and ethical vets and always at a vet’s direction, and not often to all the hunters in some barns (those who use this practice) on an off-label basis to hopefully achieve a sedation effect by a trainer with a big medicine cabinet. Any vet who does prescribe these drugs to show horses for an intended sedation effect is 100% breaking the rules. Whether your horses are getting Robaxin and Dex (with or without NSAIDs or whatever drugs I don’t know about) because everyone else is doing it, the client can’t show the horse without it, or whatever ever other reason, it is wrong- wrong per the USEF and against horse welfare. However, this is done by many trainers as part of the standard routine, and this is the abuse of which I speak. The current rules allow for it to be pretty easy to abuse the drugs in this manner, and you know damn well that USEF is aware of this.

As to riding lame horses, I am not OK with this in any discipline and would welcome the oversight in all disciplines, especially if the horse is showing a lot and jumping, but even if it is doing low level dressage or something else. Again, especially if the horse is receiving NSAIDs and other drugs that can partially mask pain such as steriods and muscle relaxants and is still not trotting sound, this is a big horse welfare problem and should be stopped.

[CuriosoJorge]

@NotOK

Those of us showing FEI don’t give our horses NSAIDs at shows or anywhere near to the date we will show.

You do realize that “FEI” is not the same as “CDI”, right?

When you’re sending parents to lameness class, you can go to pharmacology. None of the drugs you are so spun up about are sedatives.

[NotOK]

Dex and Robaxin are two that are given off-label to take the edge off. Both of these have a sedative effect. I am not claiming that people are using bute, banamine or other NSAIDs for this.

[findeight]

@NotOK

Yes, but my wild approach has gotten nearly 350 responses

Yes…but nothing has been accomplished except clicks.

Can you quote where anybody has supported showing lame horses on drugs?

[Mondo]

Yikes. I just waded through this thread. I am wondering who put the burr under the OP’s saddle. They are painting with a very broad brush. I’ve been out of H/J land for 30+ years. But the complaints were the same back then. $$ rules in the horse world. It was ever thus. So, OP, you got it off your chest. Now what? You said you are showing in dressage now. Good for you. I made the same change decades ago. But it wasn’t because I perceived lame horses winning over sound ones, or because I was horrified at all the drugged horses. It was for entirely personal reasons that had nothing to do with that discipline. Still, I have to wonder what set you off? You seem to be taking this stuff awfully personally. Of course we are all concerned with horse welfare and the view of our chosen sport from the outside. What’s to be done?

[SoCoPony]

I am waiting for the rant about all the supposedly dead horses in the stabling area at the H/J shows that everyone knows about but it’s all hush, hush and no one speaks up about it.

Oh wait that was another thread.

[crackerjack]

Sure… But then what? Even with Safe Sport we’ve seen the backlash against people who report abuse. So people watch a video, pass a test, then what? Are random participants encouraged to launch complaints?

When I’m showing I don’t actually watch a lot of rounds and definitely not the flat classes …I’m back at the barn looking after my horse ( no groom). I’m not out there policing what others are doing.

It’s up to the stewards and judges to be watching. Obviously if something is blatantly lame you can approach a steward.

[Alterrain]

@NotOK

Yes, but my wild approach has gotten nearly 350 responses.

Guys, hear me out. This OP sounds a lot like the OP from that thread (in off course maybe?? I’m having a brain fart) obsessed with the german sounding named guy who “trained” the “dangerous” wild horses better than anyone else. Among other similarities, this bringing up how many responses the thread gets… It’s either the same person or AI/ bot.

…off to find the thread

EDIT: bam. Hempfling - Different approach to being with horses

[Tackpud]

@NotOK

I do have a disdain for the HJ world, because I think the culture is broken and counter to horse welfare. It is my business because I must be a part of USEF to compete in the dressage shows I do.

And I have a disdain for the dressage world because of RollKur, but I don’t go on BBs ranting about it.

@NotOK

Those of us showing FEI

Pretty sure the FEI level of dressage was where RollKur appeared…

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

It does. I really have never understood why people enjoy trolling COTH, TBH. We’re largely a group of middle-aged ladies with strong opinions but who want to be helpful and nothing here goes really viral. If I felt like doing some shit-stirring, I’d try Twitter or Reddit personally. But I’m starting to think that’s what’s going on.

[IPEsq]

Dex isn’t a sedative. I think it used to be more popular than it is now, but maybe it was just some of the particular people involved years ago… In any case, the idea was that you’d hype the horse up with some Dex so then it would be tired later. Like barns that leave the lights on and radio blasting at night and other such awful things. Because the amount and timing for Dex was less regulated, so it became something relatively legal to do. Now because of that, it’s a lot more difficult for people who actually need it for a therapeutic reason, and if you give it within the shorter time window, you’d better have documentation that a vet gave the shot. Because the rules got updated to try to curtail this abuse. (As an aside, would have sucked for me under the current rules the one time a bee or something got into my trailer and we had to give my horse dex while on the road to the horse show after we pulled over to figure out why horse was suddenly jumping around back there).

The amount of Robaxin that is legal is laughably small compared to what a vet would prescribe as a therapeutic dose to even use daily (or twice daily) for some weeks at a time. Few horses are sedated by Robaxin, and even fewer will get groggy from a USEF allowed dose. I’d argue that any calming effect is less the CNS depressant nature of Robaxin but probably more likely due to less neuromuscular discomfort (horses being flight animals).

And none of the above will solve the showing lame horses issue.

Think about how you’d actually write a new rule. NSAIDs not allowed any more. Unless the horse is “older, has arthritis, or other condition” with a vet prescription. Clear as mud?

[Paint_Party]

@Alterrain

Guys, hear me out. This OP sounds a lot like the OP from that thread (in off course maybe?? I’m having a brain fart) obsessed with the german sounding named guy who “trained” the “dangerous” wild horses better than anyone else.

Yeah, the self-anointed sainthood definitely seems familiar.

[Paint_Party]

I’m certainly in support of enhancing the welfare of performance horses. But I doubt the practicality of requiring Horse Show Moms to watch online videos so they can be deputized to spot unsound horses at their kids’ next horse show.

The idea honestly makes me laugh. I can imagine the dust ups in the barn aisle at a multi-day show when Missy’s mom proclaims that Katie’s pony is lame and why can’t anyone else see it?!?

[erinmeri]

@NotOK

A blanket stamenent would be if I said “everyone” is “all”. I did not. And I stand by it is rampant.

Jesus, you just can’t help yourself, can you?

[RedHorses]

Does it count if the OP made more than 25% of the replies?

[erinmeri]

@RedHorses

Does it count if the OP made more than 25% of the replies?

[Halternatively]

Let’s just start our own tangent with outrageous, blanket statements. I’ll go.

Dressage people are abusive to their horses because they make them wear all of that tacky, matchy-matchy crap that serves zero purpose, is not researched-backed, is done only because it is widely-accepted in the dressage world, and, the worst part is, the horses are not given a choice whether they wear it.

I mean, I have four friends who have “dressage” in their insta bios, and they all tell me that their horses wear pink sparkly boots to match their pink sparkly pads. These pads are not supportive or made of real cotton, and the sparkles are irritants.

I also am facebook friends with a vet tech who told me everyone she is friends with swears that dressage horses are just washed up hunters who are terrible movers (too much knee action!) or knock down every jump so have no other discipline but for that of the middle aged minivan driving suburban mom.

USEF needs to do something. Like, I went past a dressage show once and I heard someone talking about how a horse’s tail looked overly-poofy, almost like they used an illegal FlowBee. This is wrong. Just wrong. Someone, do something.