Dex for sedation for hunters, no way. Lots of Perfect Prep and “cantering” prep? Yes. There is a lot of drug testing, nearly every other show we’ll have horses tested.
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See the article in the latest issue of COTH (Jun 26 - Jul 17, pg 26) “The Study Shows: Fat Ponies May Win In The Show Ring, But At What Cost?”
It is mostly about fat hunter show ponies, but also about “really fat hunter horses”
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It is a little hard to judge in a moving image with the horse under tack, but that horse is at least an 8 (noticeable crease down the back), in a score that goes from 1 to 9. The healthy range for performance horses is 5 - 6. That horse looks obese to me.
I can’t tell if it is sedated or not from that video.
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It is my understanding that “Depo” in horses usually refers to Depo-Provera (Medroxyprogesterone), which is a birth control hormone
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Oh lord. Arabesque is a lovely horse who could give a rat’s ass if we call her fat. Loves that kid.
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It’s almost impossible to judge weight when moving. Here’s a link to photos of her, though they are from last year https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/behind-the-stall-door-with-arabesque/
She looks healthy to me, no where near an 8. Maybe a 6. Not that it’s really any of our business, as we aren’t the horses’ care team and we don’t know why they make the choices they do for her.
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Agreed. If she’s an 8, then the truly fat hunters out there must be 11s. Props to anyone who gets the reference.
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Yes, Depo just means a long lasting preparation of whatever product.
Depo Medrol is what our vet treated our ranch horse with summer allergies, worked well:
—"Depo-Medrol Injection for Dogs and Horses is used to alleviate pain and lameness associated with osteoarthritis and arthritic conditions in dogs and horses. Depo-Medrol is also beneficial in relieving allergic dermatitis and other allergy related skin conditions … "—
The OP is referring to depo provera, which basically everyone shortens to depo. We all knew what they meant.
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I’ve proposed (on here) paying a higher USEF drug fee for top 3 to be drug tested. Or random out of the top 3. It will absolutely never happen, for obvious reasons. My horse was drug tested once when I was a kid. I think I got 8th in a small class. If we tested the winners? Now that I’d pay more for.
NH (top west coast hunter rider) was sat down just a couple months ago for Dex. Drugging and LTD is commonplace in h/j land. I’ve been a pro, now ammy. The sharps boxes are overflowing at shows, and I promise you (g) it’s not (just) adequan.
FWIW I have my horse at home, and show on the A circuit. We don’t do anything more than bi-annual maintenance. YMMV but I’m of the less is more camp.
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I’m in your camp as well, and thank you for the honesty.
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Thank you. I don’t disagree with anything you said except that I commonly see “step down” horses that should honestly be retired and still have to carry someone, usually a terrible rider, over several over fence classes at a lot of shows. The saintly ones are the most open to abuse because they will go and try no matter how broken they are. For this reason alone, I really would like more oversight. Again, I see these abuses in other disciplines, but no one shows as much as the HJ crowd. Moreover, jumping is just harder on them even at lower levels than training level dressage (where many other poor old lame ones find themselves).
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I think your biggest disconnect is your assumption that retirement is a better option than continuing as a show horse. As if horses who retire all go off to mythical green pastures and live under rainbows and with butterflies while all of their health and care needs are maintained forever.
This scenario happens for the tiniest minority.
I’m of the opinion that a creaky serviceably sound older horse has a much better life in the working world, where he will still have access to the care and veterinary attention that a show horse receives. Not a “retirement farm” where he is probably turned out in the bugs and all weather and where the least expensive level of care (shoeing, meds maintenance etc) is the norm.
I’m no longer sound despite all of the medical intervention I have at my disposal, yet I keep going and I’m glad that I can. I try to keep that in mind as I make decisions about what my horses can keep doing as they age.
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OP’s tone was counterproductive and perhaps the problem is not perfectly uniform across the US, but the OP is not entirely wrong either.
I almost exclusively show locally. Maybe 1-2 times a year I’ll go to a bigger “away” show but since the pandemic I haven’t really wanted to do that and I never liked that much anyway. But I do show locally, somewhat a lot. I have multiple horses with multiple programs sometimes going multiple directions in a weekend-- so I think I am seeing a decent cross section of the “Mid Atlantic” scene in the disciplines my horses do (dressage, hunters, and hunter breeding).
I am, with some regularity though certainly not EVERY horse and EVERY show, seeing some lame horses in the hunters being ridden, shown, and pinned. Again with some regularity though not uniformity, I am seeing drugging in the hunters.
It’s happening. Self policing is not working. Not entirely. Tipping off a steward won’t do anything but make you enemies, because no one is going to do anything about it. The local show managers rely on the local trainers and aren’t going to do anything to ruffle feathers. The judges just sort of sigh and pin some combination of what they have because they want to get invited back to judge and/or don’t want to piss anyone off. There’s not much you can do except play clean yourself or don’t go.
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This is concerning to me. You’re not the first one to mention it, and my visceral reaction is disgust. What the heck is going on that we need to inject these horses with a million things.
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I would happily pay an increased drug fee surcharge if it meant the top 3 were tested. It would not be prohibitively expensive shouldered across all competitors, but I do know that the middle class is already edged out and it could be another nail in the coffin. I say that as an eventer, not primarily an H/J rider (though I do go occasionally to local shows for exposure on green horses). There are horses in Eventing that have some chemical help, too.
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I agree. I know it’s fashionable for COTH to dunk on posters who take a strident tone, but there’s also a thread bopping around here about a rider feeling pressured to go to 22+ shows a year with her horse by her trainer. Few (any?) horses can take that level of constant wear and tear with some physical effects. Additionally, it’s hard for a rider not to feel pressured to make all those shows “successful” when spending so much money every year. And I have heard the jokes about sharp buckets and tubes of prep.
Obviously this is not “all hunters” and “all jumpers” but some people are acting as though the OP is just being silly.
If you read the kid’s books by Jean Slaughter Doty from the 70s, even back then debates about drugging were just part of the show world.
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The main issue with this is that the trainers are using things that won’t test or are not banned, and/or are trying to follow the letter of the updated law with dex and robaxin. And also, dex seems less widely used these days, probably because of the updated timing rules/dosages. It also does not have a consistently calming effect, IME, and tends to make some of them irritable and crabby.
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Thank you. I know I am not “silly”. I don’t know any dressage people who show like my hunter jumper friends. Of course these are generalizations, but the average dressage person is older and type A and schools at a level higher than they show and does a ton of lessons and clinics and doesn’t show year round. Sure some show at a level they have no business at and some show lame horses. However, drugging horses is not part of the culture. It is not “standard practice” and you won’t find sharps containers overflowing at shows. Read through all the USEF drug infractions. You will see it is not the dressage people drugging their horses. In the hj world, so much emphasis is on the show. People show, show, show. They are more likely to have multiple horses and the drugging thing is more of the culture. It just is. Listen I started in that world in the 70s and spent decades in it. I have also spent a lot of time in the dressage world. In general, the dressage people may do previcoxx and joint injections but I don’t know anyone who does magnesium drips, Dexamethasone, multiple NSAIDS, drugs they can’t test for, Carolina Gold or whatever the hell is the “it” cocktail at the moment. I do know someone who started to use Depo on her dressage gelding but that was after we had two failed hunters for sale in our dressage barn and the owner at the time, who is a huge name in the hj world as in everyone in this forum knows it, would send someone out to our barn like clockwork to do their Depo. They were both geldings. They were both pretty blah and dull as dressage horses and certainly didn’t need sedation, but that is what they had to endure. After learning about it, the dressage owner started using it on her gelding who was prone to act like a stallion. I did not agree with it as I have never even given hormones to a mare that I ride or show. Also, the few times I needed a horse to receive Dex for a legitimate reason like serious hives, I did not ride or show them. I tried to ride a former FEI horse when she got Dex and I could tell she wasn’t feeling well and was more lethargic and dull so I did not ride her. Also, in dressage we need a forward thinking responsive horse to do well. A sedated horse isn’t ideal. Moving up the levels means putting on more and more buttons. In hunters, a sedated horse is rewarded often as the ideal. One that just does it’s job with”auto everything” and a crummy rider who doesn’t know how to push buttons anyway can’t mess up is worth a lot.
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Would you please stop comparing h/j to dressage like the dressage world is the freaking utopia of good horsemanship. I’ve spent plenty of time in dressage barns and there is just as much nonsense that happens there, just of a different variety.
For starters, shall we talk about all the middle-aged ladies riding these giant, amped up dressage horses who can’t sit their gaits and are brutally abusive with their hands trying to hang on during sitting trot? Who get spun and spooked off at horse shows? I used to board a giant horse park that hosted shows across a variety of disciplines, and there were never more falls or calls for the EMT or loose horses running around than during the dressage shows.
Shall we compare h/j to eventing, where horses are injured and/or die on course with alarming frequency?
Honestly, just stop complaining about h/j. If you don’t like it, don’t do it. If you have complaints, go complain to the USEF. The culture is what is is, for better or worse, and if it’s not your cup of tea, vote with your feet.
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