Seller Took Gates/Fencing

We closed on the farm today, finally. Unfortunately, the sellers had car trouble a few states away, and couldn’t make it down to closing to give us the keys. Not a huge deal, because they still have stuff on the property they are coming back to pick up by Friday (including their last 2 horses).

Knowing the sellers were out of town longer than intended, I went to make sure the horses got fed and watered (they were, btw). I’ve been boarding my horse here for about a year, so that includes my own mare. Upon arrival, I discovered they have taken two metal gates with them (a perimeter gate and one leading to the pasture with the missing perimeter gate). They also took the metal corral panels that fenced in the same pasture.

I don’t care that much about the panels, though it would have been nice if they had said something. But gates? What? Is this a thing that people do? Have you ever run into this before?

They left a diagonal plank of wood in place of the one of the gates. That was supposed to keep the horses from escaping, I guess? The horses can easily escape now, should they decide to wander. They are in the pasture connected to the one now missing a gate. I propped up a rusted and busted old gate that was lying in a debris pile, so at least it might slow them down a little. Going back tomorrow to figure out a better solution. Remember that this includes a couple of their own horses at risk!
I was mad, but now I’m more baffled. I’ve never bought horse property before, is this typical?

Gates are permanent fixtures, so is fencing but not panels IMO (which are advertised based on their portability). I think, but am not an expert, that it should have been in the contract if the gates didn’t convey. My seller took his big pile of fence posts that I was eyeing and left me his dead push mower and about 25 concrete blocks and two nice sized tree trunks that are all still floating around here. DH may have cut up the trunks for firewood.

Are you sure someone else didn’t help themselves?

edited to add were the gates attached to the panels or to fixed fence posts? We have integral panel gates which are also portable with our panels.

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Agree with ReSomething unless those items were specifically listed on the sales listing as not included the gates if attached to posts in the ground belong to the property. The “panels” would be questionable depending it they were free standing or attached.

I guess you have two avenues 1) have for agent contact the sellers agent to ask for the property to be returned or pay for replacements 2) file a claim on your home homers for theft of property

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I agree. Gates should have been left. It should have been written in that the panels were also not included as i would have expected them to stay. Talk to your sales agent because i would expect them to return the gates or pay for new ones. The panels are more of a grey area.

I am a realtor and agree that the gates should have conveyed unless otherwise specified. Sounds like you have their horses and they have your gates. Personally I would not give them their horses until they returned your gates.

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I would expect gates attached to fence posts in the ground to be considered permanent fixtures and thus to convey, as everyone has said so far.
Free-standing fence panels I would not expect to convey, and I would have asked before closing just so I’d know.

People suck. I bought a 20-acre farm and had to buy no less than 16 gates. There was only one gate left on the farm, and the people that put the fencing up felt the need to put in a million gates in all the fields. One of the 200’x200’ square fields has a gate on all.four.sides. I closed one of those with fencing because it was in the most absurd inaccessible location. It wasn’t my seller’s fault though, a few years previously they’d leased the property to a woman who ended up being a hoarder/neglect situation and she stole all the gates when she got kicked out. Plus, I knew before even making an offer.

For just two gates, I probably wouldn’t try to hold the horses hostage or anything, but would definitely make sure they are aware they are not permitted on the property without your presence, not even to pick up their horses (and you know, the rest of the gates). Unless maybe if they try to leave their horses there well past their welcome.

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charge board per day for he horses unless there was an agreement in the contract

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Give that man a BEEG CIGAR for the correctest answer!!!

You can’t hold horses ransom for the missing gates. Unless otherwise specified you likely do have a lien on the horses for care being rendered. A common pasture board rate is $150/mo/head. If there are two horses they owe you $10/day. That would be a “rock bottom” rate in most places and if you decide it’s “overnight” board and a monthly board then $5 can easily become $25.

If you agreed that the horses could remain and didn’t ask for daily fee then that might be a problem for you. So look back to your agreement. If you just acquiesced that they could remain and there was no discussion of a rate then you have an argument. Still, right now you wear the White Hat 'cause they removed property of yours without your consent.

Did you have a lawyer at closing? If so a phone call would be appropriate. If you want to “turn up the heat” call the police and make a theft report.

G.

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What a strange afternoon. We messaged them about the gates, and I think they said they thought they were allowed to take the gates because they were made out of metal, like the portable corrals. They said they will “install gates anywhere we think we need them”, and said we “shouldn’t go on the property yet” (they are apparently now afraid we want to take their stuff, though not sure how that is a logical response to “Hey, you weren’t supposed to remove those gates and potentially loose the horses on a busy road”). I have a horse that I’ve paid to board there, so yeah, no. Just a weird conversation. I get being stressed about moving (hello, I’m doing it too!), but this has been pretty frustrating.

Have to keep looking forward. In a year, we will laugh about this stuff, right?

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Better laugh than cry! At least none of the horses were hurt. That is weird, inconsiderate and stupid. The sooner you are freed from having to deal with them, the better.

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Wha? You closed. That means you took possession, you are now the owner, you get to pay the taxes, you gave them that Pile of Money, it’s yours and you can move in or on the place anytime now. Now if they made arrangements to rent back for a week then ok.

I sure hope they didn’t take the wiring or copper pipes, they are metal too.

Yes I hope that in a year you are well situated and looking forward to many years on your nice farm.

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Very odd. Like everyone else said, gates stay put. The panels depends on what the contract says.

Sounds to me like they are playing dumb and just took stuff for their new place so they didn’t have to pay for it again. I’d contact my agent/attorney ASAP. New tube gates aren’t exactly free. And if the panels weren’t specified as owned by the sellers and removable prior to closing, I’d be asking for those back as well.

I sure hope they left sufficient food/hay for their horses. Do they have friends looking after their horses or are you supposed to? And what on earth are they telling you that you can’t go on your own property?!? That’s just crazy!

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Just a guess - sounds like they haven’t mentally/emotionally fully detached from the farm, yet. Left their stuff behind, including their horses, and think they can keep you off until they “get their stuff”. They have a problem with boundaries.

Be ready for some strange interactions on Friday. Absolutely stay close to them to be sure that more of your stuff doesn’t leave with them. Speak up if anything they do, say, or take is inappropriate. Don’t worry about keeping things friendly - they will use it to manipulate you out of more stuff. The best you can try for now is cordial. But even that isn’t solely your responsibility.

Don’t let them in without those gates. Saying they will put up gates for you “anywhere you think you need them” is a bs non-specific answer. They aren’t going to do squat, based on that answer. Be very specific with them that they need to return the gates they took as soon as they arrive on Friday. Otherwise you won’t be able to unlock the front gate for them (hope there is still a front gate, otherwise have one installed with a lock). I suggest stand your ground even if you think it would be easier to just forget it, because if they think you’re ok with the gates disappearing, they may try to latch on to even more things they are no longer entitled to. Be matter-of-fact, non-confrontational, definite and firm. :slight_smile:

I’m sure you are ready to get this over with on Friday. But, they may try to leave stuff behind for a second return trip, or use your new farm for permanent storage of stuff they consider theirs (thinking they will still have access later). The truth will be that they just didn’t bring enough transport and help (assuming). Be prepared with a plan to handle this. Tell them by what specific date you will relocate it to a third-party location for them to pick it up there, with you no longer being responsible for it (within a week). If it comes to that, execute the plan, and then you’ll be done with them, whether they help or not.

Hopefully they don’t try to leave their horses with you indefinitely, on free board. (I’ll refrain from saying that in your place I’d worry that they care more about those gates than the horses. And that they’ve already gotten what they most wanted off the farm, and dang it they left the horses.)

Hopefully this post is a complete over-reaction! :winkgrin: But what you’ve posted has red flags popping out all over, to these eyes. :eek: :o Good luck! :slight_smile:

The scenario just reminds me of an evicted tenant claiming they had no resources to move their things. They were actually trying to manipulate continued access to the property. When I explained where and when they could find any things they left behind, and not my responsibility after those things were placed in that space for them to pick up “later”, suddenly they had a moving truck and labor-help to get it all. :yes:

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I have bought/sold all over the country as I followed my Air Force husband around. We ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take every. single. bit of interior fencing - pipe panels, posts, gates, tape, wire, whatever. We ONLY leave the perimeter fencing. All of this is always described in detail in the contract, and we have yet to have a buyer complain and/or ask for it to stay. We might be willing to leave it if we were fairly compensated… everything we take with us gets used on the next property to set it up the way WE want it, without any out-of-pocket expenses.

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OP, make sure your agent is present when the sellers return for their "stuff,’ and the sellers agent too. When a seller “rents back” after selling the property, it’s usually at a day rate that will cover the buyers’ mortgage on the new place plus any additional expenses, not the going rate for board.

PS - you probably don’t really want their horses, who apparently are not valuable enough to go with the sellers.

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I guess they don’t understand the term “closing.” I would remind them that you closed already which means the property (and the gates) BELONG TO YOU NOW.

They are the ones that will need to ask permission to enter the property.

Actually, I would probably have my lawyer make that call. If they have a realtor and/or attorney I would make sure they are also aware.

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That is unusual. Why on earth would you want to reinstall used fencing? Maybe pipe panels…but you actually pull posts out? That is weird.

If it is in the contract then I guess buyer beware.

Why didn’t you just adjust your home/farm price accordingly and leave it?

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This is absolutely appropriate. By contract you can remove any fixture you have installed. If the contract does is silent on the removal of fixtures then they stay 'cause they are FIXTURES!!! :slight_smile:

Removal of temporary fencing systems like Electrobraid or the like would be common. I presume that most folks would not be pulling up posts set in concrete or wooden board fencing. Those would likely not be economical acts. But, then, humans being humans some might actually want to do that!!! :slight_smile:

If the property has closed then, unless the contract grants the prior owners the right to leave property behind or they have specific permission to do so, then the new owner may consider anything left to be “abandoned.” Once the papers are signed, recorded, and the checks have cleared the old owners retain NO RIGHTS to be there or leave stuff there. Now the stuff that is there belongs to the new owners.

The actions of the old owners in removing fixtures would be a theft. The new owners can all the sheriff and make a report. Likely the DA will see this as a “commercial dispute” and not want to prosecute it but that just means we now have the tort of Conversion vice the crime of Theft. It’s still a moral and ethical wrong that is actionable.

This is a cautionary tale about selling rural property with personal property involved. Sellers, get your stuff out on time or it might not be yours anymore. Buyers, ensure the property is clear before you let anybody have your money.

G.

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this is why when we built our barn we used free standing stalls…they are not attached to the building …the stalls do interlock to one another but they are Furniture not a Fixture

The building is clear span so could be used for multiple proposes

This was thirty years ago as we really were not sure then if if we would stay here or move out into the country so did not want to have to purchase stalls and mats and all that again, we could just load the things up (with a lot of help) and take them with us…but would have been very specific in the listing that none of that stuff was remaining

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I suspect the military was paying for the move therefor take everything as it was not costing the seller anything to actually transport the stuff

Adjusting the property price up to cover these items might have made it less attractive as no one really wants to pay what any of those items are worth

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