For those of you who sell horses, what are some of the most minor PPE findings that have caused buyers to walk away? I’m really curious!
This virus is going to my brain…I interrupted PPE as personal protection equipment. 😂 interested to see the real meaning of this thread though!
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Pre-purchase exam.
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As a seller I had a potential buyer vet a horse using a local vet and then send the rads on to their personal vet. Both vets agreed the horse vetted pretty darn clean. She called two days later to say that even though both vets agreed the rads were good, she was a nurse and she could see the horse had an old fracture in his hock (uhm what?) and she was going to pass on him.
It was completely bizarre. Horse was bred raised and trained here and had never taken a lame step. I sold him a few months later to a different person but that experience definitely went down as one of the strangest.
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We had a horse who was diagnosed in the prepurchase exam at UC Davis after flexion tests as lame on all fours. I really liked the horse and was sad when after talking with their vet they said they wanted him anyway. Silly to keep him but you know how some horses get into your heart.
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Oh boy. I got one from eons ago.
Lovely 8 y.o. Arab gelding. Had shown some NQR-ness before I sold him but he was checked by 2 different vets and they didn’t see anything to pursue. Most of his issue was behavioral and I thought he just needed a change of vocation. I had someone interested in him and took him to their ranch (120 miles away) for a trial for their client. I know…bad idea. Gelding resided in the city in an irrigated pasture. They did the PPE and pulled his shoes for x-rays then kicked him back out sans shoes in a very rocky pen. OMG-he is lame and has navicular! He had moderate lollipops (way before MRI) that prompted their diagnosis and I had no baseline films
I brought home home one of theirs. The first time I went to ride him he was lame:no:. That was a waste of gas but he was nice so I went back 3 weeks later. They deemed stone bruise and had shod him. Nice TB with lots of elasticity that looked and felt sound. Track trained but never run. My vet did x-rays and said he saw a draining tract from a chronic subsolar abscess. This foot (LF)also had an interesting spade shape. I hadn’t really noticed that at my trial ride.
With the navicular diagnosis on my gelding and the issue on the TB, I declined to buy the TB and we swapped back. My vet concurred with the navicular diagnosis on my gelding but I still didn’t believe. I was able to re-home him…I gave him away with the caveat that if he deteriorated, he would be euthanized. Well, he stabilized with shoes. Poor boy was so lame when I got him home from his week of standing on river rocks I felt terrible. I have no idea why they didn’t put his shoes back on. The person I gave him to had a family issue so he sat for the winter and when she brought him back the next summer he was really stiff and again NQR. She had a vet evaluate him again and what his real problem was was early onset hock arthritis. I suspect he was born with his lollipops. She was able to judiciously bute him and work him easily and over the next couple years his hocks fused. She was a trail rider and he carried her all over the Idaho mountains for years (retired in his late 20’s) after that.
The owners of the TB were after me for a couple months. That can’t be the diagnosis. That tract didn’t mean anything per their vet. Still not changing my mind. They sent the x-rays to WSU and the radiologist said no tract but rotation of the coffin bone (I can’t remember how much but it wasn’t severe) but sure…now I really want him…NOT. I guess they were afraid that I would sing to the world why I didn’t buy him? He was sold a couple months later and I heard from my instructor that he developed severe navicular (again back before MRI) quite early and was retired. Something was going on in at least the LF for the shape to be so different from the RF.
I ended up with another Arab gelding with legs of steel. I didn’t even have him x-rayed.
After that, I have only bought youngsters. The one I am on now I bought as a coming 2 y.o. And she turns 18 tomorrow. Other than she is gray and has the attendant melanomas, she is very serviceable and sound. I am 64 and have to board and have already decided this is the last one. If I want to keep riding I will look for a 1/2 lease. PPE’s on older horses are fraught with complexity and cost and I am no longer up to starting anymore youngsters.
Susan
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My oddest was selling a breeding stallion; he had passed his PPE and breeding evaluation (motility, volume, etc) but before the buyer would execute on the contract - they wanted him to be tested negative for EVA.
While I understand this in practice (and definitely don’t fault anyone for crossing their T’s and dotting their I’s), it was so weird to both me and the vet doing the work for them because he had 1) no symptoms (including mares he had bred aborting) 2) it wasn’t common in his breed and 3) there hadn’t been an outbreak anywhere he had been while he was of breeding age. There is also a vaccine against it.
We were happy to do the test, and of course it came back negative. It was just a really out of left field request after the breeding soundness exam had already passed that neither the vet nor myself expected.
Edit: I clearly didn’t read the OP correctly. :lol: Sorry; I was up late altering chaps - I blame my lack of sleep on my lack of reading comprehension.
A friend was selling her horse this winter. She was holding the horse for the PPE.
Vet doing the PPE was the buyers vet.
Anyway, she’s talking to herself as she’s doing it. Says “splint on left front”. Friend is like “what? This horse doesn’t have a splint?”. Vet goes to point it out to her and it’s a chunk of mud!
Vet also told the potential buyers that she had a grade 3 heart murmur. They decided not to purchase.
Friend had her vet listen a few days later. He couldn’t hear a murmur. Someone else had a third vet do a PPE a few weeks after that. Friend fully disclosed to the buyers and this vet what happened with previous PPE. This vet couldn’t hear a murmur either, buyers went ahead and purchased the mare.
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I had a vet come to do a vet check on an imported 4yo Holsteiner gelding I’d had for maybe 6 months stateside. Imported is a notable fact because horse was inspected top to bottom prior to my purchase and then again in the import/quarantine process. Horse also traveled to Canada once a month for 4 months and had to go through a TPR check at that point each month. Horse had been vaccinated a few days prior to PPE.
Vet noted increased respiratory rate when she did TPR. But she forgot to grab her thermometer and just skipped taking his temperature. She decided that he was clearly showing the first symptom of heaves as that was the only explanation for the increased respiratory rate (facepalm). When I expressed that I was positive the horse did not have heaves and had a long record of close enough inspection that we likely would have picked it up long before, her comment was “4 is a common age for heaves to present itself and I have obviously just caught it.” She called my buyer (horse was mid/high 5-figures and buyer had flown in from out of state) and told her that the horse clearly had heaves and was not worth anything as such.
I wish I had thought to do it while she was still there, but I was so flabbergasted I didn’t know how to respond. Horse had been sound in every way from the moment he’d arrived here…no breathing issues, always normal TPR results, no oddities when at rest or at the end of intense work. I spoke to my regular vet who suggested that I take the horse’s temperature. So I did. Unsurprisingly, horse had a 102 degree fever. Possibly as a minor reaction to the vaccinations? Maybe just a bug. But whatever the case, a much more likely reason for an increased respiratory rate than heaves!
Buyer disappeared for a couple of days. I called the head vet for the vet clinic who did the PPE and he immediately came out to reassess the horse. Of course within 24 hours the fever was gone as was the increased respiratory rate. A gal who worked in that clinic later told me that that particular vet felt that it was obscene for anyone to spend big money on a horse and therefore was always looking for reasons to PROVE that high dollar horses were not worth it. For that reason along with a couple of others, that vet is no longer allowed on my property. As an end to the story, the head vet recognized the absurdity of the situation and absolutely stepped up and made my buyer feel comfortable again. Horse is now 7 and to my knowledge has been healthy as a…well…horse :lol:
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I was selling a 4yo TB. Reluctantly agreed to a 2-week trial, out of state (with contract & insurance).
A few months prior, horse had scraped his forehead in my trailer, just under his forelock. It was unusually slow to heal, but barely dime-sized so I thought nothing of it. At time of trial, it still didn’t have hair, but was a smooth, pink-skinned raised patch (about like a hive or bug bite welt). It didn’t bother the horse in any way, and I thought nothing of it.
After 2 weeks trial, buyer decided to PPE horse. (I was not present, out of state). Passed all soundness exams, great flexions, great feet. Buyer asked her vet about horse’s strange hairless bump on forehead. Vet said it looked like a sarcoid, and biopsied it without my permission.
Turns out, it was a sarcoid. And buyer became very upset. Still wanted horse, but wanted “assurance” the sarcoid was no big deal. Wanted to keep horse another 30 days with return clause to evaluate sarcoid. At this point, I just wanted horse SOLD so I said sure. Bad idea. After biopsy, the previously minor sarcoid got ANGRY. Started weeping, oozing, and got the size of a quarter. I also have my suspicions that buyer rode horse less, less training, and horse became too much for her. She sent the horse back to me, because the sarcoid scared her too much.
He came back thin, a little squirrely, but otherwise okay. The sarcoid looked crusty and oozy. It would scab over, rub off, and get bigger. I had my vet look at it, and she froze it off with liquid nitrogen. No guarantees it was gone forever, but it healed with just a tiny line scar, easily covered by forelock. Another buyer came along; I disclosed the former sarcoid, buyer said “what a stupid reason to pass on a horse!” She vetted him, no issues, bought him and she still loves him 6 years later.
Another story: had a darling pinto 14.3 gelding, safe for anyone. Selling cheap. Had many many interested buyers, willing to pay cash, no vet. But the first who contacted me in good faith wanted to vet. She was out of state, buying sight unseen, so sent a “trusted” unfamiliar show vet to see the pony. I didn’t know pony’s full history, I rescued him from a bad situation, but in the 4 months with me he was sound and healthy. Her vet watched him jog, flexed hind legs, and immediately said pony needed hock injections, and wouldn’t recommend to buy pony unless I injected him. No xrays, mind you, just injections. This was a $1500 5yo pony. Barely started over fences, no hard saddle work, not being sold as a show horse.
Buyer was confused; she really wanted pony, and agreed with me that injecting a 5 yo’s hocks was really unreasonable. I offered to get another opinion. A different vet, mostly racehorses, local but never met me, watched pony jog. Said previous vet was a money-grabbing idiot, pony was 100% sound and suitable for intended purpose (lessons, 2ft kid stuff). Buyer happy, wired me money and sent a professional shipper to get him in three days. When she finally met the pony, she was incredibly thankful she didn’t listen to original vet. Pony was perfect, just what she wanted and was totally sound.
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I was helping a friend sell her mare. She’s a big girl – half TB/half Clyde. Sent her on trial and the woman loved her, the trainer loved her The vet said, she’s perfect now but it’s possible she could develop ringbone later in life. Yup. Lots of things could happen.
The lady passed on her.
I kept her. Five years later no ring bone. I’ve always been grateful that vet came up a possible problem.
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That’s kind of what I’m going through. I have an adorable young Holsteiner who is seriously priced to sell. The first gal who sat on him loved him. The friend (a judge) loved him. The trainer loved him. The vet watched him trot from behind and observed that he paddles slightly with both hinds. Vet told the girl that this COULD possibly predispose him to stifle problems later in life. Or maybe not. No way of telling. But the horse flexes perfectly and has no unsoundness history whatsoever.
She passed. But then she started texting my trainer and I yesterday/today asking if he had sold yet. Well, we’re waiting on a final payment, but basically he has sold. I think she’s kicking herself now for being so gun-shy. Ironically, the vet who did the second vetting was not at all concerned about horse’s movement behind.
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Those kind of things drive me mad. Literally anything COULD happen that could cause problems later in life.
Had a buyer pass on a horse with sidebone in his front feet. Nevermind that he had a USEF record through 1.15m and was schooling 1.20m and literally anyone could jump him over literally anything. Plus he’d shown the sidebone on xray since he was a yearling, was nine years old, and was never lame on it. That’s fine.
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There’s a vet who operates on referral from a major vet clinic in our area that is notorious for doing extremely long hard flexions and failing every horse that she sees. I’ve encountered her twice and now say use any vet except that one. The clinic is reputable for PPEs but this vet doesn’t actually work there but just has some sort of referral arrangement with them. The first experience was with our daughters first pony, an 18 year old 11.3 hand welsh mare who had never had a day lame in the 8 years we had her and was sound barefoot. She did an extremely long set of hard flexions and she trotted off slightly stiffly. Likewise, she cranked on her tiny feet with the hoof testers and thought she was too reactive. People decided to buy her anyway and she’s been sound for the five years they’ve had her. It was weird, the vet literally bragged about how tough her flexions are and how none of them jog sound.
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@mmeqcenter Yeah, I also have my theories. I found it really odd that the vet was pushing stifle X-rays so hard. He wanted to sedate the horse and take 6 views. On stifles that had no unsoundness history and didn’t flex positive. Later I come to find out this vet is notorious for “upselling.”
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I was selling a 6yo Arab gelding that my mother had bred and the buyer sent their vet for a PPE.
As the vet was checking his eyes, he asked me if the gelding had always had those growths in his eyes.I looked at the gelding’s eyes and couldn’t figure out what the vet was talking about. The vet clarified that he was talking about the growths lining the top sides of the gelding’s pupils. I finally figured out that the vet was asking about the gelding’s perfectly normal corpora nigra. (They weren’t cystic and they weren’t overly large, just normal.)
Ummm … yes, Doc, he’s always had those “growths.”
Fortunately, the vet decided that the gelding’s vision was good and he was “the soundest horse” the vet had ever done a PPE on. I have no idea if he mentioned the "growths’ to the buyers but in any case, they did buy him and last I heard, still had him 20+ years later.
I would have been very, very annoyed if the sale had fallen through because the PPE vet didn’t know basic equine anatomy.
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I had a darling little TB mare for sale. Green, but mellow, agreeable, bold, just an all-round solid little citizen, priced under $5K. A lady came to try her, pretty decent AA hunter rider, Maresy was an absolute gem. The lady liked her, but had never had a green horse, so we agreed she’d lease Maresy for a month at my farm, take lessons, get to know her, etc. At the end of the month, all seemed well, PPE done.
The lady calls me after the PPE and passes on Maresy because … and I quote … “a mare will be too hard to handle when in heat.”
Maresy had gone through a heat cycle during the lease. :sigh:
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I have one from the other side…
Was looking at buying a young horse a few states away. Arranged a PPE with a well respected clinic, vet and I discuss goals for the horse and limitations of the PPE over the phone prior to the appointment. Nothing crazy, lower level eventing, basic PPE, willing to radiograph a little if necessary, just call me to discuss. All is well.
I got a call as he was on his way back to the clinic after the exam, telling me this horse wasn’t suitable for my goals, due to some subjective issues with conformation. And there was some filling somewhere, I don’t recall details (quite awhile ago!) but I probably would have radiographed it…
Always thought it was really odd that he just decided the PPE was over and left! He really didn’t like that horse :lol:
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8 years ago I had an OTTB gelding for sale. I had just had a baby and the horse was not doing well with me not around. He was the type that liked his person and routine. So I made the hard decision to sell.
He was CHEAP. Like under $3k cheap. I use wanted to find him a good home, I turned many people away if I thought they weren’t suitable.
I found a great family and they had a vet do the PPE that I can’t stand. She’s honestly one of the least competent vets I’ve ever seen (and yes I used her once years ago for vaccines. She has issues with needles…) anyways horse flexes pretty well, x-rays show minor hock arthritis but nothing alarming for a middle aged ottb who ran a lot. She requested every vet record from the time I had bought him.
Well for one the vet practice I had used, split up. And we had (horse and I ) been out of state for a few years. It was seriously not possible to drum up those records, although I happily gave them what I had that was recent. The vet acted like I was con artist. Instead of a young woman with a young baby trying to find her horse a good home, for a seriously cheap price. They did buy him though and he’s still with them and doing great. I still get to seem him occasionally.
