Selling foals - payments? deposits? what is fair?

[ASBJumper]

This will be my first time selling a foal, and it occurred to me while I was mulling things over tonight that I’m not quite sure how this is going to work…

Let’s say the interested buyer would like to put down a deposit to hold the foal cuz they’ve never bought a foal before, they’re not local, and it makes them nervous to pay everything up front and then not see the foal for another 4-5 months. BUT - they want to buy it, they don’t want to risk it selling to someone else in the meantime, so they offer a deposit.

I’m all for that, but so what happens in the interim? I would obviously ask them to get the foal insured, but what about trims & misc costs for the foal’s care (minus board)? Should we do up a contract stating that even though the foal is not full paid for, all farrier/vet costs are the responsibility of the buyer…?? How would this work?

I want something that is fair to all parties. What is it that you guys usually do when buyers either a) don’t have the entire purchase price up front or b) do have it, but are nervous about paying for something that won’t be in their possession for months…?

Thanks!

[Kyzteke]

The way I work it, is that once the deposit is put down and the contract signed, the buyer is responsible for all costs related to the care & feeding of the animal.

Now, for a foal, I think most people do not charge “board” per se till the foal is weaned, since you’d have to feed the mare anyway, but that is up to all parties.

I charge my buyers “at cost” for all food, trims, worming, vaccines, etc.

If it’s something a vet must do/supply, then I let the buyer & vet deal with each other directly, since the buyer may often prefer to use her credit card for these things.

Now, I DO insist on insurance being purchased at the very beginning and I also insist on monthly payments, even if they are modest. The buyer & I discuss the amount and the actual day of the month it will be due, but I’ve it’s been my experience that it “reminds” the buyer they’ve made a commitment…and give me more $$ should the buyer change their mind.

Any extra costs that are incurred are paid for as they occur. I send the buyer a monthly invoice w/ receipts if they so desire.

That way (again) you aren’t left holding the bag should your buyer bail on you.

Example: let’s say someone puts a $1000 “deposit” on a $10K foal, the balance to be paid six months from that date. And let’s say some $600 in costs are incurred during that time frame.

Then the time comes for the buyer to pay the balance, but they decide (for whatever reason), they’d rather lose the $1000 than cough up the other $9K.

Not only have you lost 6 months of time in which you could have marketed the foal, but you are also stuck with the $600 of expenses. Sure, you take it out of the $1000 the buyer gave you, but even if they had been making monthly payments of $100 + expenses, you would have had a better deal.

And I’d like others to chime in on a question I have. If a you give a buyer an “inutero” discount, meaning the buyer owns the foal as soon as it is born (and paid for), does that price generally include inspection costs/fees as well?

We will assume the mare is already approved…

[Dressage_Diva333]

For foals, I require a 10% deposit and signed contract. Balance due by weaning, I honestly don’t care what the payments are. Board is included, and I also take care of the first vaccinations and trims. They are responsible for anything additional. Registration costs are included.

[Molly_Malone]

I do the same as Dressage_Diva. “Price includes board until weaning including routine vet (worming and vaccinations) and farrier care”. I register all of my foals automatically so that doesn’t even factor into the price for me. I also teach them to lead, load and stand

[FLeckenAwesome]

I just bought a foal (yay!!!) at 10 days old. I put almost half down, and he’s mine. As in… it’s not a deposit to let me have dibs and decide later if I want him… he’s mine. I suppose if I changed my mind, I’d lose my deposit and just be SOL, but at the same time… she’s no longer marketing him. So seems fair.
Then the rest is due by weaning. For me… everything is covered other than unexpected medical stuff. They’ll cover board, feed, routine deworming and shots, etc. Then… once he’s weaned and ready to ship, he must be paid in full. If not, then I pay board until he’s paid. And I’m paying for the coggins, health cert, shipping and any extra shots or stuff I want/need.

I think she even covers trims and such for now.

Now to just wait 5 more months… sigh…

[coloredcowhorse]

Between 10 and 25% down (not a deposit to hold, it is the down payment on purchase), balance by weaning (unless it’s a huge amount and then I’ll do a longer contract) with (preferably) monthly payments to be negotiated. All expenses for the foal (vet, farrier) the buyers responsibility. I don’t charge board until the foal is weaned…if he’s still here more than a week or two after weaning (due to shipping arrangements) then a modest board charge. Insurance required. Shots, worm treatments, feed are all included without charge as they would be needed in any case. Same with basic training…it’s part of the price of the foal…halter, tie, trailer load, bathe, clip, trim, simple ground manners…all part of what a foal should know when they leave here and part of what I sell when I sell a foal. Registration done with buyer input on registered name if not done when the buyer looks at foal and does down…if foal is a couple months old registration will already be done and they can change the registered name on their own if they choose…at their expense.
If buyer bails out for some reason they forfeit all paid funds…I have negotiated a couple times when a buyer was disaster-struck and have held a foal for them or even let them take one and continue to make payments (depends on distance and my sense of how reliable they are)…the papers don’t transfer until payment in full is done.

Currently buying several and the above terms are pretty much the same in all those cases…they are being purchased either with mare being bred back so waiting on ultrasounds for her transport or in one case, foal is staying with seller so waiting for foal to be weaned before shipping pregnant mare. Board is minimal from these sellers so not a big deal.

[ASBJumper]

Thanks guys, this is all extremely helpful.

So, as far as I can tell, you guys consider any deposits and payments to be non-refundable once the contract is signed and agreed upon? So, i am not a monster if I refuse to refund the buyer’s money if they decide a month later that they’ve changed their mind…?

[ise]

We don’t sell foals to people who have never raised a foal before - we’ve seen too many other breeders do this and it oten results in a youngster that isn’t being fed or trained properly or worse a boarding situation where they don’t get adequate turn out.
That said - any foal we do sell - everything is in writing. Insurance policy must note there is a lien on the foal, the amount of the insurance must be for the balance due and the seller is named as payee if anything happens to the foal. Make sure you spell it out in the contract that any injury to the foal that is no fault of the seller DOES NOT cancel the contract or balance due.
We do keep them board free while they are on their mare, after that we have a Board Contract which states and we do cover worming/trimming so we know it’s done at the same time of the rest of the horses. Medical is the responsibility of the buyer but in the event of an emergency we have the right to call in a Vet and/or take the youngster to the clinic.

Any failure to make payments results in the contract being cancelled and all payments made are forfeited.

[Kyzteke]

@ASBJumper;5691305

So, as far as I can tell, you guys consider any deposits and payments to be non-refundable once the contract is signed and agreed upon? So, i am not a monster if I refuse to refund the buyer’s money if they decide a month later that they’ve changed their mind…?

Nope, you’re not. Like others, I might think about being more lenient if the buyer loses her job, the husband comes down with cancer and the house burns down, but in general all this stuff IS non-refundable.

[Kyzteke]

@ise@ssl;5691373

We don’t sell foals to people who have never raised a foal before

This is an excellent point that is rarely discussed.

I have had several buyers purchase a foal, then ask if they can leave it w/me till it’s over a year old, simply because of the very same reason – they’ve never raised a foal before.

If I have the space, I’ll do it, although it makes me uncomfortable because of the liability angle.

But I have had 2 cases where the buyer really knew little about horses other than how to ride them.

In one case it did NOT turn out well and I ended up with the “foal” coming back to me as a 2 yr old.

But the other case (so far) has turned out great.

Of course, it didn’t hurt that, in this case the buyer was/is starting vet school, boards her foal with a “mentor” who works at the vet college and has raised afew foals himself.

I figure this buyer has a great support system…better than mine, actually:)

But it’s something to consider.

[ASBJumper]

Oh absolutely I will take it into consideration - I will be asking all the right questions and vetting the buyer thoroughly, but I will not decline a sale for the sole reason of them never having raised a foal before… everybody has to start SOMEwhere. I bought my first baby as a yearling having no experience whatsoever with babies, and I did just fine. It just takes a responsible, conscientious person and some common sense. I could sell a green 3 yr old to someone and have them ruin or starve that horse, too - that’s always a risk. :no: