Separation Anxiety in dog? Or is it just a beast?

[MumboJumbo]

Scenario: dog is high energy mutt, 2 years old, nice personality, been with current owner for 5 months, adopted from shelter. Whenever left alone in the house outside of her crate, pees/poops/both. Inside her crate, there has never been an issue. When someone is home, dog does not pee/poop in the house (ie. is housetrained). Obviously it would be nice for dog to be left alone outside crate without messing in the house but this has yet to be possible.

After discussing with the vet, he feels that this could be a form of separation anxiety. Other than medicating (not happening), he didn’t really have too many suggestions. After much googling, I am still unclear as to what can be done.

Does anyone have any experiences or suggestions on how to eventually fix this?

[Bicoastal]

Need more info. How long is dog left loose in house? How long before being left alone did dog eliminate and consume? How much exercise?

What has been the transition from crate to loose? If none, I’d start transitioning space and duration. Crate opens to a pen then small room, then kitchen, etc. Loose for 15min, 30min, increase to 1hr, etc.

[make_x_it_x_so]

Honestly, we had this problem a bit with my dog (she was good for a while then started peeing in the house when we were gone), and now we just always crate her when we leave. She doesn’t get anxious about us leaving- I think she just got lazy with holding it in and waiting for us to be home. Even when I’m home all day she spends 90% of her time sleeping (waking up to switch from couch to bed and so forth), so I don’t feel so bad leaving her in the crate for a moderate amount of time while we’re out.

[trubandloki]

Bicoastal asks some good questions.

Why not just leave the dog in the crate where it feels safe and comfortable and you do not have to come home and get mad at the dog?

[wendy]

this could definitely be separation anxiety- eliminating in the house when the owners leave is a common symptom. Dogs who have gone through a re-homing are quite prone to separation anxiety. Crating the dog forevermore isn’t really an acceptable solution- it doesn’t address the real problem. Plus it’s cruel to keep a dog in a tiny cage for long periods of time each and every day. Crates are a TRAINING AID, which means you use it for training and then get rid of it. Using a crate as a Band-Aid instead of addressing behavioral problems isn’t acceptable.

tips for curing separation anxiety: http://pets.webmd.com/dogs/separation-anxiety-dogs

[Arrows_Endure]

I don’t think keeping a dog in a crate where it is safe and comfortable, both mentally and physically, is a cruel thing. My dogs all like their crates, and I think they get anxious if I leave them out of them when I am not home. I know my boxer stares out the window the whole time we are away from home and barks at every noise, leaf, passing car, butterfly, and strong breeze that goes by. If he’s in his crate, he just sleeps. My cattle dog/border collie mix finds “things” to do if left out loose. They are never things I would approve of either. My youngest, well, he’s not getting out of the crate for awhile. I think he’s one thumb short of being a super villain personally.

If the dog is comfortable out, then by all means let them be out, but if they are showing anxiety (peeing, chewing, barking, etc), then put them in the crate (again, providing they are comfortable in the crate).

My old lab/pit mix, Molly, was crated up until the day she died at 13. She didn’t get anxious when out loose, she got into things. She could open the refridgerator and get herself a snack. When we duct taped the fridge closed, she got into the pantry and ate boxes of dried pasta and uncooked pudding. We moved everything but the cans up to where she couldn’t reach them, and the brat chewed open cans of green beans and cat food and ate them. We put her back in the crate after that. She was happy and I didn’t have to clean up messes every day.

[trubandloki]

I agree with Arrows.

My aged greyhound is totally content in her crate. She runs right in there when she is told to, not hesitation. You come home and you see lots of happy dog stretching and yawning as you let her out from her cozy all day napping spot. On the occasions we have tried to leave her out (one time not on purpose, the crate door was not latched) we come home to a destroyed mess. Not just a little anxiety but totally destruction of anything she can reach. In her crate she sleeps and chews on her chews toys. No anxiety.

I think leaving her out would be more cruel than leaving her in a crate and it would leave her open to injuring herself.

[casper324]

From my desk many miles away I’m wondering if the dog is just marking his “new territory”. Of course it could be out of anxiety but my guess is the dog will stop peeing and pooping once it is comfortable out of the crate. You’ve got to let it know peeing and pooping in the house is not acceptable because if you don’t acknowledge the dogs error, he’ll never know. Try leaving the crate door open when your gone, this way the dog if anxious from being out, will know he can go in at any time. I am not a anti crate person, I can understand wanting the dog to have more freedom during the day.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=casper324;7049643]
You’ve got to let it know peeing and pooping in the house is not acceptable because if you don’t acknowledge the dogs error, he’ll never know. [/QUOTE]

And in your opinion how does one do that when they find a mess that was made hours before you find it?

[blondejumper]

I have a rescue who does the exact same thing Doesn’t matter if I’m gone 5 minutes or 5 hours. I’ve just resulted to crating her every time we leave. Would love to know if they find a solution!

[casper324]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7049722]
And in your opinion how does one do that when they find a mess that was made hours before you find it?[/QUOTE]
Bring the dog to the messed areas and tell it NO. I give dogs intelligence credit. They do learn right from wrong / good and bad behavior . They can and will put 2 and 2 together and “get” craping in the house doesn’t make momma happy.

[Bicoastal]

[QUOTE=casper324;7050675]
Bring the dog to the messed areas and tell it NO. [/QUOTE]

Punishing the dog hours after soiling is antiquated and ignorant of modern research.

Yes the dog is intelligent and needs to be taught appropriate house behavior. Skipping from crate for 9hrs to loose 9hrs (not saying OP did that; OP hasn’t responded), is lazy. Any consequences, like soiling or destruction, fall to the owner, not the untrained pooch.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Bicoastal;7051741]
Punishing the dog hours after soiling is antiquated and ignorant of modern research.

Yes the dog is intelligent and needs to be taught appropriate house behavior. Skipping from crate for 9hrs to loose 9hrs (not saying OP did that; OP hasn’t responded), is lazy. Any consequences, like soiling or destruction, fall to the owner, not the untrained pooch.[/QUOTE]

I would give this more than one thumbs up if I was allowed to. Thank you for stating this so well.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=casper324;7050675]
Bring the dog to the messed areas and tell it NO. I give dogs intelligence credit. They do learn right from wrong / good and bad behavior . They can and will put 2 and 2 together and “get” craping in the house doesn’t make momma happy.[/QUOTE]

No. You are just the unpredictable person who scolds them for no apparent reason in their mind.

[trubandloki]

Or they are thinking that you are crazy for scolding them while you put their face into that pile of crap, they already know that they should not let you do that.

[Wayside]

@trubandloki;7049106

I agree with Arrows.

I also agree with you both.

My shelter mutt has mild separation anxiety as well. When I left the house with her loose in it she was eating things which were getting progressively less and less edible, so I have also gone the route of crating her every time she’s left alone in the house. It might not be the most awesome thing ever, but it sure beats being poisoned or having a GI obstruction or perforated bowel.

[jaslyn1701]

About 2 months ago I adopted a 2 year old Weimarner. It took me a month to convince her owner that we would be a good fit - the issue: The dog would be crated while I was at work and the owner did not like that. She finally realized that whatever somebody told her, once the dog was with the new person, she had no control. So, I got to meet my wonderful new friend and she came home with me.

She is very routine oriented. As I get ready for work, she lays on my bed and watches. The last things I do before I leave is put out dry food for the cats and shut B up her in her crate. 9 times out of 10, by the time I get there to latch the door, she is already in - on her own.

If you are worried about your dog having separation anxiety and destroying things or eliminating in the house while you are gone, do both of you a favor. Leave the dog where it feels safe - in his/her den.

[casper324]

I may have a different way with animals then you folks. My dogs know exactly if they have done some thing wrong yes even hours later, then again I have pretty smart dogs. I felt the attack was unnecessary and probably why I never post in this forum. Did I ever say push their face in it? Did I ever say hit them? No I said tell them,big difference.Then again I have 3 rescues who are well behaved animals that have never needed a cage they are at home in my home. I would also never crate a dog longer then an hour or two and pity those dogs who live most of their day in crates.

[Beckham03]

In addition to everything that was mentioned…I have an older dog that was doing the same thing and I attributed it to bad potty training. She has severe separation anxiety and when we started her on medications and working on the anxiety, the eliminating in the house completely went away.

[Bicoastal]

OT about housebreaking and ‘sticking his face in it’

[QUOTE=casper324;7055836]
I may have a different way with animals then you folks. My dogs know exactly if they have done some thing wrong[/QUOTE]

I did not mean to attack you and chose my words very carefully to explain what I was disagreeing with. I did not state you are ignorant. I stated that method of housebreaking is ignorant of modern research.

The quote I captured is also ignorant of modern research on dogs’ appeasement signals. Lemme see if I can dig up…here we go: https://www.patriciamcconnell.com/theotherendoftheleash/guilty-dog-viral-video
The author is a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, has a PhD in Zoology, successful author, and expert in animal science.

Your 3 dogs did not know exactly why they were being punished, even though they appeared “guilty.” They likely gradually became housebroken through routine, physical maturity, and timely punishment.