Separation Anxiety -- We have playing! Update post #23

Just looking for a little dog advice.

I just moved (we’ve been here about 24 hrs, so literally just moved) with my dog to a new apartment (we were previously living at my mom’s house). My dog is 100% crate trained. When I’m not around, she’s in her crate (she stresses, worries, and cries otherwise). Of course, now we’re in a new place and if I leave her in her crate, we’ve got crying/howling/barking… Obviously this is to be expected. New environment and she’s barely been here.

However, I’m looking for advice on how to handle it. I’m off until Monday and if she’s not quiet in her crate, she’ll spend the work week at my boyfriends as she can’t be barking, crying, etc. while people are working downstairs. Last night, I had to run out. She cried for about 10 minutes before she settled down (I was outside listening). She was fine when I got up. This morning, I went out to feed and she cried for more like a half hour before she was quiet. After about 10 minutes of silence, I went back inside, ignored her in her crate for another 10, then let her out. I didn’t make too much of a fuss until she calmed down again.

Right now I’m thinking short periods of time in the crate over the course of the day (every couple of hours), then when she’s quiet, she gets to come out. Obviously it’ll take longer than the weekend, but eventually she should settle and be happy in her crate again. Am I on the right track? Any other advice?

yep, and make sure she’s getting plenty of exercise still. The more tired she is the better and faster she will quit stressing in thecrate

Katherine
Vet Tech

All the above sound good. Stick one of your unwashed t shirts in the crate-a good and stinky one- to held her know that you aren’t leaving her forever in this new strange place. Can’t hurt.

Thanks. We’ll keep working on it and eventually she’ll understand this is home and all will be good. It’s just going to take time. She’s happy as can be as long as I’m around, but I guess with the move, her separation anxiety is coming out again.

I put her in her crate a second time this morning (needed to run out and finish feeding the horses and she was napping on my bed). She cried and barked and had a fit, calmed down then basically had a full fledged panic attack/breakdown. I tried to wait it out downstairs but after what felt like forever (~1hr?), I just found my first momentary break in the panic and walked back into the apartment. I ignored her when I came back in and she stayed quiet until I eventually let her out. I had some moving errands to do so she joined me for the afternoon though was exhausted, a little clingy, and sad.

When we got back from our trip, back in the crate she went for a nap. She didn’t want to go in but only whimpered a bit and eventually settled. My boyfriend and I were still in the room, but she couldn’t see us (though could here us) and we ignored her. After an hour I went out to check the horses (bf stayed inside, out of site) and she whimpered once or twice but managed until I got back (though I’m sure she realized she wasn’t alone).

Other than separation issues, she seems happy enough. I’ll work on more exercise tomorrow. We went for a walk this morning and played ball, but probably could have done a lot more. Just took a long walk a few minutes ago and she’s exhausted.

So I guess we’ll just work tomorrow before I take her to my bf’s in the evening. She’ll be back a night or 2 during the week (but will spend the days at his house) and be back here during the weekend. Not ideal, but I can’t risk her crying while people are working in the office downstairs.

I’ll either find a dirty t-shirt (just did laundry before I moved…) or sleep with her blanket this evening.

OK so I think I’m dealing with more than just an adjustment to a new house, but general separation anxiety. She’s always had some separation issues (I might have written this earlier, I can’t remember), but through crating and time, she’s improved. Of course now I rocked her little world.

Up until Friday, she spent most of her time split between my mom’s house and my boyfriend’s. She was happy as can be either place, both where home to her. Then I had to go an move out. As long as I’m around, she’s seems happy and is having lots of fun. Lots of walks, horse visits, fetch in the pasture either by herself or with the landlord’s 2 dogs. We play and by the end, she’s napping in the grass. She seems happy overall. Even in the apartment (it’s a small studio, but there is easily enough space for her to play). As long as I’m around.

Today was a mixed bag. This morning, we went for a walk first thing and then I put her in her crate for a bit while I stayed in the apartment, she napped. Eventually I left to feed the horses. She cried a bit when I left and occasionally after, but nothing much. I stayed out with them for a bit (1/2 hr maybe?) and then came back inside. I could hear a whimper when I walked in downstairs, but nothing else after so I came back inside. I ignored her, left her in her crate for a bit more then let her out. I ignored her until she calmed down then she got some attention. I figured we were making progress. I did try leaving her out of the crate to see if that would make a difference, but she tried to squeeze through the banister to get out (the stairs in the apt were blocked) and she’d have gotten hurt.

We played outside for a while later with the other dogs. She was so exhausted after I had to help her up the stairs. Into the crate she went for a nap. I stayed for a while then left to groom the horses and make sure they were adjusting to the move. More crying this time. I just continued what I was doing. There were some break between cries but ultimately the crying escalated to full fledged melt down. I tried to ignore it and see if she’d calm herself down/fall asleep. She quieted down occasionally then panic mode. Eventually I took advantage of a break in cries and came back inside. I found her shaking like crazy–this really scared me.

Ultimately she calmed down and she played on her own and I got stuff done. She was exhausted and wanted to nap so in her crate she went while I took a shower. A little crying but by the time I came out she was out cold. I tried to leave again (just for a few minutes), she cried. But there was a break in the crying a few minutes later and I returned.

We spent the rest of the afternoon working on/reviewing some training and basic tricks (sit/stay/shake/come/down/etc.) and playing with the other dogs. Then we headed to my mom’s for dinner (probably not the best idea to take her there as that’s where she’s super comfortable) and then I dropped her off at my bf’s. He’s going to bring her by tomorrow night and she’ll hang out until work Tuesday afternoon.

What else can I do? I know she needs to be here to get comfortable, but at the same time, I can’t keep her here while I work if she’s going to be in a state of panic (among other reasons). As she gets comfortable here, will she adjust and be OK alone? It’s still early, but how long would this adjustment take? What do I do when she’s having a panic attack? I am going to call the vet tomorrow morning for advice, but I’m so upset thinking about all this. I want my sweet and happy puppy back!

I may have missed it, but didn’t see anything about keeping her mind occupied while in the crate.

Get a Kong, fill it with her regular meals and give it to her in her crate. If you only feed twice a day, perhaps you could divide up her daily intake into 3 feedings and give her one of them when you have to leave. Kong’s can keep a dog totally occupied and usually they don’t even notice that you are leaving. Then they have used up some energy and licking and chewing urges and are ready for a nap.

There are many, many ways to stuff a Kong and many websites offer recipes, and ideas of things to put into them to make them easier to empty, or harder to empty which takes much longer.

There are also many wonderful puzzle toys that have been developed for dogs to keep their minds occupied. Just search puzzle toys and you will be pleased at all of the choices. I still like the ones that give them a food reward when they have figured it out.

When I left this morning my 4 month old pup was blissfully working on his lunch with a little liverwurst spread around the inside of the Kong and he didn’t even look up when I said my goodbyes.:slight_smile:

I’ve done Kongs in the past and she always gets a cookie or two in her crate as well (to the point up until I moved that I reached for the dog biscuits and she’d bolt in her crate sit, and wait with a wagging tail for her treats. Crate=safe place with cookies and good tasting food).

Since the move, no luck. I put a Kong filled with treats and peanut butter (she loves peanut butter) and she won’t touch that or her cookies until I return and let her out. Then she’ll go retrieve the treats to eat (I like the kong to be a crate only treat). Even if I’m in the apartment, she’s not willing to eat the the treats/kong until she’s out. I did put a stinky t-shirt in with her and she did move it around and try and snuggle with it, but she couldn’t relax enough and it didn’t do much good.

I spoke with a dog trainer friend of mine and went over all her issues. She agrees that it’s separation anxiety. In the past we’ve made things work–band aids–but never dealt with it. We move and all the band aids fall off. I called my vet who listened and recommended a behaviorist vet (even when people are around, she’s clingy. She’ll try and greet me like she hasn’t seen me in months even if I’ve been away for only minutes-). They had a cancellation so I’ve got a home visit on Wednesday morning. Until then, both my friend, vet, and behavorist suggested that when she’s not with me, have her stay at my bf’s house where she feels safe (she’s happily crated there now until he gets home from work). If she is with me, don’t leave her alone as the panic attacks she has leave her shaking like a leaf with fear.

Hopefully through behavior modification training, time, and patience we can get her good to go. I don’t necessarily want to go the meds route, but, if we need medication in conjunction with this, fine. The thing is, I won’t be at this place forever (probably a year) and I’m afraid without dealing with it now, it’ll be worse the next move.

You want to work with a vet behaviorist if possible, or your vet combined with a dog trainer that has specialized in behavior.

There are anti-anxiety drugs that can help especially with adjustment periods - don’t be afraid to find a combination that works for your dog (but talk to your vet about the different options & the possible side effects).

Do not leave her in her crate to have melt downs - this is creating a very bad association in her mind with her crate: the place that used to be safe isn’t so much anymore.
You want to work on desensitization but NOT flooding (ie no Cesar Milan techniques).
Until you get a workable plan going, just keep sending her over to the boyfriend’s or your mom’s place & only bring her back to the apartment when you’re able to make it a happy/relaxed time - left home alone in her crate, she may seriously injure herself.

I don’t think you mentioned her age (or breed) but some dogs manage their SA as pups/young dogs & then slip over the edge as adults (2yr +); it may also just be the move …

Read MelanieC’s story about dealing with SA in her dog Solo - I don’t recall if she’s posted much on COTH about SA in dogs, maybe do a search or send her a pm for some helpful links.

[QUOTE=alto;5609564]
You want to work with a vet behaviorist if possible, or your vet combined with a dog trainer that has specialized in behavior.

There are anti-anxiety drugs that can help especially with adjustment periods - don’t be afraid to find a combination that works for your dog (but talk to your vet about the different options & the possible side effects).

Do not leave her in her crate to have melt downs - this is creating a very bad association in her mind with her crate: the place that used to be safe isn’t so much anymore.
You want to work on desensitization but NOT flooding (ie no Cesar Milan techniques).
Until you get a workable plan going, just keep sending her over to the boyfriend’s or your mom’s place & only bring her back to the apartment when you’re able to make it a happy/relaxed time - left home alone in her crate, she may seriously injure herself.

I don’t think you mentioned her age (or breed) but some dogs manage their SA as pups/young dogs & then slip over the edge as adults (2yr +); it may also just be the move …

Read MelanieC’s story about dealing with SA in her dog Solo - I don’t recall if she’s posted much on COTH about SA in dogs, maybe do a search or send her a pm for some helpful links.[/QUOTE]

Yes, definitely not leaving her in her crate right now (unless she’s at my bf or mom’s). When I posted the first time, I didn’t realize what I was dealing with. Now I do. If she’s with me and I have to go outside and she can’t be running around loose, I’ll probably put her in my car with the windows open. I wouldn’t leave her there for long, but she’s happy in there and it’s still one of her safe places. Certainly better (and safer!) than leaving her in the crate.

Behavorist coming Wednesday. I’ll try not to be afraid of drugs. They work wonders for some people, so why not dogs? At least through the initial adjustment. In the meantime, when she’s with me, I’ll just try and make everything a positive experience.

I’ll definitely read MelanieC’s story too.

Thanks!

She’s young. Just over a year old. She’s a mutt–some sort of mix between a lab/sheltie (mom) and possibly jack russell. Her mom was rescued and more or less immediately had the litter of puppies in a foster home.

The thing is, I won’t be at this place forever (probably a year) and I’m afraid without dealing with it now, it’ll be worse the next move.

Also consider whether your projected lifestyle over the next several years is going to be the best option for your dog - rehoming is not something to consider lightly, but don’t stubbornly rule it out either, especially if it’s possible for her to live with your mom or boyfreind until you know you’ll be more settled - you get to be the aunty:yes:

[QUOTE=alto;5609630]
Also consider whether your projected lifestyle over the next several years is going to be the best option for your dog - rehoming is not something to consider lightly, but don’t stubbornly rule it out either, especially if it’s possible for her to live with your mom or boyfreind until you know you’ll be more settled - you get to be the aunty:yes:[/QUOTE]

Well, the plan is for this to be a temporary location (~1yr) until my boyfriend and I have a decent down payment for a farm of our own. I can manage the mortgage, but I’m working on the down payment… (If it were up to the real estate agents I’ve worked with, I’d be buying this year rather than next, but I’m not comfortable buying without more of a down payment–sorry for the tangent!) I’m not willing to consider rehoming now. Not until I’ve at least worked with a behaviorist, tried medication, and explored other options. If all else fails, then I’ll consider having her live with my mom or boyfriend full time.

I’m not just looking at moving again, but my family takes our dogs on vacation with us. I guess I just want to know how to handle the issue. That’s all I can do for now. If that doesn’t work, then she can live with live with my bf permanently (until we all move) but I’ll cross that bridge if I get there.

So we met with the behavorist vet this morning. Overall, it was a pretty successful appointment. If nothing else, I feel more confident that we’ll get through it than I did a few days ago.

He agreed that she definitely is dealing with some separation anxiety issues (and has had separation anxiety in the past) and the move just brought it all out again. Vet seemed pretty confident that we can easily handle it with a little bit of effort. I mentioned that she is comfortable at my mom’s and my boyfriend’s and that if we can’t get her comfortable, staying with them permanently could be an option–he rejected that idea for now and told me that we can explore that issue in the future after we try and whole lot of other thing. He didn’t feel it would ever get to that.

We started her on a low dose of fluoxetine for the interim–vet feels she’ll likely only be on it for 3-4 months. For the next 2 weeks, she’ll stay at my boyfriend’s during the day. After that, we’ll start working on short trial separations at my place (15 min, 30 min, ect.), video taping her in her crate to best observe how she is. I’ve been instructed to get her extra special yummy crate treats (cow bones from the butcher) that she’ll only get when in her crate. Since she’s not overly involved with a stuffed kong, we’re going to hold off food puzzles and kongs until she’s more comfortable being left alone as right now they’re not all that interesting to her.

He went over a relaxation protocol (a slighly modified version of Dr. Karen Overall’s) and practiced the basics with her and then watched me. For the first week, I’m to remain completely in her site during these exercises.

We’re going to schedule a follow up phone call in about 10 days to 2 weeks when we’ll evaluate and plan some trial separations. I can call/email if I have issues in the interim.

The biggest thing I have to work on is ignoring her when I return/let her out of her crate/etc. until she calms down.

Overall though I feel good about it. I’m trying to make all her time at the new place fun. Lots of playing, good associations, etc. If it will help, she’ll be allowed to stay in her crate (or even loose) in the office below my apartment when I’m at work once she’s with me full time. She can also spend some time during the day out playing with the landlord’s wife and dogs. But, I don’t want to rely on that in case they’re away, office assistant is out sick, etc.

Thanks for the advice so far. I’ll keep you updated.

In addition to the BV work, I have a suggestion.

I have a JRT who is obbsessed with me, needs to know where I am at ALL times. When I lleave him in his crate, I ALWAYS leave the TV on, cartoons, and ALWAYS tell him I’m goinng out & I will be back soon.

If I don’t tell him I will BBS, HE. HAS. A. FIT!!! If I leave him loose he does to.

The routine works beautifully. Every time.

If you leave her @ Mom’s or BF’s, try it, then use it at the new lace.

Good luck

LBR

So my dog’s been on medication for almost 2 weeks now. She’s been staying at my BF’s during the week (coming for a night or 2 when convenient) and then with me all weekend. When she’s here, I make sure she’s plenty exercised (gets way more here than at BF’s). She plays with me and with the other dogs, goes on walks, runs around the pastures, and helps feed in the mornings (she loves horses). She also gets to go places (went to devon yesterday and she had a ball) and ends up constantly being exhausted. She sleeps at night in her crate, but I don’t always make her nap in her crate when I’m here (though maybe I should).

I had a follow up phone call with the behaviorist on Friday. It’s hard to tell if the meds are doing anything. He’s having me give her the full dose one day and her current 1/2 dose for the next 2 days for the next 1-2 weeks (I have a date written down, but am not looking at it now). Because she’s small, we don’t want to give her more than she needs, but at the same time, want to experiment a bit. After 1-2 weeks, we’ll decide if she’s going to stay at the full dose, 1/2 done, or 3 day rotation.

In the mean time, we’ve been working on our behavior modification protocol. The first “session” was easy and we repeated that a few times before moving on. We struggled a bit with the second (the second session involves walking towards another room, etc.) but did wonderfully today. I’ll probably try this session 1 more times to ensure confidence before moving on. Behaviorist is having me modify the steps slightly to work with my living situation. So instead of walking down the hallway to another room, I’m walking down the stairs to our door–I was able to walk downstairs, open door, walk out, back in and back up today while she held her stay.

I did mess up a bit though. We talked Friday about starting timed trial departures so I tried that today when I think he wanted me to wait a little longer… I misread my notes. It wasn’t great or even good. 15 minutes in her crate with a special treat (marrow bone!). She was interested in the bone as we walked to the crate, but was just upset in the crate. I videoed her and she never settled down. Some periods of quiet (1-2 minutes) before she’d howl, paw the crate (trying to get out–nothing too bad, but she did paw some), bite it (only did that 1-2 times but not hard, just kind of mouthed it), and cry. At one point she did try and lick the marrow bone but wasn’t interested. When she wasn’t howling, she didn’t look overly upset, but then she’d get upset (she’d be sitting or laying down and then after 30 seconds decide to howl). I came back at the end of the time and let her out and ignored her. Then since I needed to ride, I put her in my car with the AC on and she napped for about an hour, didn’t make a peep.

So I’ll be emailing the behaviorist to see if I did too much damage. Or where to go from here. She hasn’t had more than 1 dose of the full dose of meds, so we wouldn’t see a difference there yet.

Anyway, just thought I’d give an update. Words of encouragement are always appreciated.

Success!

Well, some success.

After the events of last weekend, adjustment of medication, and hot weather, my puppy went on a hunger strike and didn’t eat for a few days (struggled to even get meds in her one of the days). I talked with both our normal vet and the behavorist and decided to bribe her into eating. Bought chicken and ground turkey, cooked everything up and she decided to eat on her own, before the goodies could be added to her food (she inhaled everything so I guess she realized how hungry she was). She’s been eating great ever since and is loving the little extras in her food. She has however decided that she does NOT want to eat in the mornings if it’s before 10am. So we’ve stopped trying. She gets either a late morning meal (if someone is around) or an afternoon breakfast and a late dinner. But it’s working and she’ll happily eat medicine at the later meal time. Try to feed her early? She is NOT happy and won’t eat.

Anyway, we adjusted her meds last week again and worked hard on our protocol. I then left for a business trip and just saw her yesterday. This morning at the behavorist’s advice, we did a test separation for 15 minutes. We went for a long walk this morning, played in the horse pasture, and then relaxed in the apartment for about 15 minutes before I put her in the crate. She didn’t go in willingly and shook a bit in the beginning, but I gave her a marrow bone and left her a bowl of goodies and kibble, encouraged her to take a bite or two and left. I first went downstairs and she could hear me and cried a bit so I left. When I returned 15 minutes later, the progress report from the people downstairs was that once I left, she didn’t make a peep!

Anyway, when I let her our she was excited but calmed down once she realized I was ignoring her while she was being a nut. She ate all the goodies, most of the kibble, and had started on the marrow bone. Considering she hasn’t been willing to eat anything in the crate up to this point at my new place, this is big progress.

We’re going to do another test separation Friday (I have to check my notes if it’s for 15 minutes or 30) and hopefully everything will go just as well.

Sorry this is going to be long…

OK, separation anxiety update. So my dog has adjusted nicely over the last couple of months. We ran through protocols regularly (though they didn’t do too much), had some good luck and some not so good luck with departures and basically through trial and error found a routine that seemed to work for her, for the most part that is.

Even though her crate was always a safe place, in the new apartment it was anything but. So, we abandoned it (it’s actually at my boyfriend’s and when she’s there, she has no issues with the crate). She’s more comfortable loose so she can hang out on the bed or her favorite chair. I live above an office so about a month and half ago, I started leaving her for the day with the people down in the office (they offered to keep an eye on her). She’d cry here and there for the first day until she’d realize people were around. The door was open to the stairs to my apartment and eventually there was no crying at all. As long as she knew someone was around, she’d hang out upstairs for most of the day, with a brief visit downstairs once or twice during the day for hugs.

After a couple of weeks of this, the person in the office full time went on vacation however the house/business owner left his dogs in the office (better AC than at their house) and she spent 3-4 days alone with the other dogs, no crying or any other issues (I had the webcam on and most of the time all 3 dogs were asleep on my floor). The end of the week the other dogs weren’t in the office but the time alone with the other dogs seemed to really help her adjust to being alone. Since then she’s more or less been alone and I’ve really had no issues (full time employee is now part time). Occasionally she howls when I leave but by the time I get to my car, no more crying. FOr the last 4-5 weeks, she hasn’t even bothered to get off of my bed when I leave. I no longer leave the door open because she has no interest in going downstairs and prefers to sleep upstairs. Whoever is on the farm lets her out once in the late afternoon and she’s happy to go back up stairs after that.

Which brings me to today. I guess with every leap forward we have to have leaps backwards?

I’ve been sick the last couple days. Left for work briefly on Wednesday before deciding to go back home. Went to work yesterday and she was fine all day (webcam disconnected but there was someone in the office and she didn’t make a peep). I took the morning off today and left for my car a couple hours ago. As usual, she barely looked up and happily ate her cookies as I left. But, I forgot something and came back a few minutes later (which seems to be the issue–I leave and come back whenever, fine. I leave, come back, and leave again, not so fine) and she was excited to see me and cried as I left. Didn’t think much about it, but when I opened up the webcam feed, she was howling. Now, 3 hours later, she’s still crying/howling on and off. She’s laying in front of the ac unit now and doesn’t look upset, but won’t relax enough to sleep and is alert. In other words, she’s not happy.

Part of me wants to just leave work and make sure she’s OK, but I’m an hour drive away and I really need to get some projects done before the end of the day.

Any suggestions? Did today just erase all of her progress? Especially if I just leave her to cry it out?

Wow you’ve made a lot of progress. Good on ya :yes:

Seems like you have to let her cry it out because you have work to do. This too shall pass.

Silver lining: you’ve found a gap in her conditioning you can work on. Out-in-out…in-out…in-out… rinse & repeat:D

If it is any consolation, my dogs will also go bananas if I oops forget something and run back inside. Treat and their word that signifies I’m gone for a while (I say “Stay here” as I walk out the door) while I stride to the car as quietly as possible.

hmmmm…

This is what I found interesting:

she spent 3-4 days alone with the other dogs, no crying or any other issues (I had the webcam on and most of the time all 3 dogs were asleep on my floor). The end of the week the other dogs weren’t in the office but the time alone with the other dogs seemed to really help her adjust to being alone. Since then she’s more or less been alone and I’ve really had no issues (full time employee is now part time). Occasionally she howls when I leave but by the time I get to my car, no more crying.

Is there any way for her to spend more times with these dogs or other dogs during the day?

AND! Congratulations for showing such patience! It seems that and your hard work is paying off.

Definitely a gap in her conditioning. I’ll have to work on that. I’ve forgotten things before and she usually is semi upset when I leave the second time, but not like this. Though I usually throw an extra treat down for her as a distraction the second time I leave. She still had her large treat left (she ate the other one) so I didn’t think to leave an extra–usual routine).

She’s still crying on and off. SHe’ll be exhausted when I do get back. I may see if my boyfriend can stop over when he leaves work just to check on her for a half hour. He could probably be there in about 2 hours where it’ll be closer to 4 1/2 before I get home. I know we’ve made huge progress, it’s been hard, but moments like this just make me feel awful. I muted the camera so I don’t have to listen to her and can actually do some work…

[QUOTE=BetterOffRed;5772272]This is what I found interesting:

Is there any way for her to spend more times with these dogs or other dogs during the day?

AND! Congratulations for showing such patience! It seems that and your hard work is paying off.[/QUOTE]

Yes and no. Right now said dogs are out of state on vacation (where they’ve been all week). When they are around, she usually goes out to play with them when they’re out (1-2x/day when I’m at work depending on their schedule). They’re not always in the office and don’t necessarily enjoy spending the whole day there but lately, even when they are there, my dog hangs out upstairs and the other 2 usually stay downstairs (the novalty of upstairs has faded).

Here’s the little monster in question:
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb108/katzs44/?action=view&current=DSC01897.jpg
http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb108/katzs44/?action=view&current=herms2.jpg

love the frogdog pic!