Setting Jumps Properly

[ReesePcs]

Hi everyone! I have a nice horse who has never been a stopper, and especially a quick one. The only time he has ever quit on me was when I put him in too bad a distance to get over.

Today I was approaching a jump and the distance was “eh”… it would have been a little long or short but certainly feasible. Horse planted front feet at ground pole. I was upset so corrected and went right back to it… he went right over but still seemed unsure.

Well, my ground person said he looked “surprised” at the jump. I am coming from a hunter barn that had normal hunter jumps, etc etc. Now I am at a jumper barn with nothing but colored poles. This jump I had set had white standards, two solid white top poles (oxer), no filler, and one red and white striped pole on the ground. The footing is sand and sun was behind us.

Sooooooo I have now learned that it is avoided to use solid white top rails. I also learned it isn’t good to have a single rail jump (3’+) with no filler and a ground pole on either side, as it is easy for horse to misjudge distance.

Are there other rules I should be aware of? Is it a possibility that this happened?

[IPEsq]

If that were the case, no one would make it around a show schooling area which is full of white rails and no filler, and no need for 2 rails on the standard at the 3’ height.

Who told you these rules?

[pony_grandma]

More likely your horse felt your lack of confidence and hesitation.
Distances have a lot more to do with the quality of the canter vs solid white rails and that part about the rails is total BS.
Quality of the canter means lengthening and shortening the stride and the balance and impulsion of it.
You should be working on jumping in a grid to develop the striding and confidence of you and your horse.

[endlessclimb]

There was a recent large international eventing competition, I apologize that I don’t remember which one - I believe it was rolex or badminton.

There were an unusual amount of falls at these large, airy oxers made of white logs. Part of the determined cause of the unusual number of falls was the white color being hard for the horse to judge and analyze.

Am I remembering that wrong?

[Redlei44]

Concur with the above posters. The warm up jumps in the schooling ring at show are typically exactly what you describe - four standards, four poles, that’s it, white or natural color, for everyone from the short stirrup to the 4’. Most horses are warming up over an oxer that can be jumped in both directions, often a square oxer. So a ground line on either side and single top rails. Definitely no fillers. Sometimes there are some extra cups that allow you to use one of ground poles as a second front rail instead (making it jumpable only from the direction with the ground pole in front).

It’s not that unusual for horses to peek at jumps that look “odd” to them because they have never seen one like it (or it’s been a long time and they’re accustomed to the opposite). Plenty of jumpers spook at solid fillers, similar to hunters that spook at airy jumps built with colored poles. That’s training and experience, not safety, though.

Many trainers will roll the ground line out as the jump goes up, maybe about a foot or so if you’re at 3’. That can be a helpful tool for helping horse and rider judge the distance.

[blondewithchrome]

@ReesePcs

Sooooooo I have now learned that it is avoided to use solid white top rails. I also learned it isn’t good to have a single rail jump (3’+) with no filler and a ground pole on either side, as it is easy for horse to misjudge distance.

Did the person who told you this explain why it is not ok to have ground rails on either side? I’ve never heard that. I always set my jumps like this - as the ground rails DO allow horse to judge spread when they are set on the front and back of a jump properly, so I was taught. I could be totally wrong though!

We also exclusively use white rails presently. No horse has ever struggled to judge the jump. What say you to a white fence at a big rated show with solid white poles? They are not uncommon (granted, usually with a ton of filler but - white is white!)

[RAyers]

White and yellow are two of the best colors a horse can see. That is why the fences in steeple chase and cross country are incorporating white bars on the tops of solid fences. There are numerous studies done to determine the color spectrum horses see in order to make those sports safer and to give horses a better chance to see the obstacle and jump it cleanly.

Look at the biggest fences at Badminton last year, open air white oxers. Not one stop or fault at them.

The fence had nothing to do with the stop. And whoever said it was the fence is not really all that knowledgeable about horses.

[ReesePcs]

Hi everyone, thanks for the input! I guess I should clarify… of course if you are in a schooling ring or show (jumpers), then your horse is looking for and expecting the jumps. No issues there. What I am asking about is going to a jump that wasn’t there previously and suddenly “appears” to a horse. Keep in mind this horse is relatively young, very aloof, and a WB. Lack of focus is definitely my responsibility, but I never thought about making jumps “inviting” to horses when schooling. I really don’t need to jump airy things (and don’t like to), but, until I can get a different setup, I’m trying to work with what I have. For example, I also made the mistake of a false ground line about a week ago (single rail, ground pole on other side. I had one on my side, but it was not rolled out and in shadows.).

I will attach a video, but please don’t slaughter me… this is one mistake out of many good rides. I did not ride expecting a stop because he never stops. He had schooled fine before and after this totally normal. This was the first jump on a “mini course.”

January 17, 2021

[Redlei44]

No slaughtering, hopefully! That jump looks fine as built. It’s approaching a height (is it 3’?) that starts to test horses, especially young and/or green horses, when it’s a miss. Hard to tell from the angle and the sun, but it appears that you missed the distance and left him to figure it out. Could have been a nice long(er) one if you had pressed up to it, or could have been the add step if you had compressed the stride (with impulsion!). But you met it on the half stride.

Of course we want horses to bail us out and always jump no matter what, but those horses are unicorns and probably weren’t like that when young/green either. Continue to work on your canter quality, straightness, and adjustability. Consider having a pro ride him more often to give him confidence and education.

ETA: maybe you mean to convey that he would not have stopped if it were a more solid jump. That may be so, horses have their preferences too, but that jump is perfectly reasonable as built. It looks like the many/most of the jumps in the background are just poles too? If your guy is really not used to jumping just poles, then back up and start small.

[endlessclimb]

These are the fences I was thinking of. Didnt some horses get hung up in these, and people were saying it was partially the color and partially the lack of ground line?

It is entirely possible I’m losing my marbles.

Edit: apparently it was burghley. I still may be losing my marbles.

[adultammylife]

Agree with Redlei44, the jump appears fine as built (admittedly a little hard to see from the camera angle and the sun but nothing sticks out as looking wildly strange). Definitely agree that you lacked the impulsion to adjust to the distance that showed up. You were right in between and either needed to know that sooner and press up, or collect and make a deliberate decision to fit the stride in. Since you kinda just put your hands on the neck and didn’t really tell him what you wanted, he stopped because he lacked the impulsion to bail you at at that height/with that canter.

[initiate1987]

I think you’re thinking of Badminton where there were two white railed oxers, one set two strides from the water and one in the water. The problem was the water and the fact that horses tend to be sticky in the water. The course designer got a lot of flack for it. Rolex does have a least one white railed oxer that I don’t recall ever being a problem.

[IPEsq]

I’ve been at several barns where you couldn’t leave jumps up. So a lot of the time you flat around with no jumps. And then when you have time to build and tear down, jumps suddenly appear. If the horse is at a stage where he is jumping 3’+ this should not be a problem.

I think you just missed the distance and your horse thought stopping was the best option in this particular instance.

[SuzieQNutter]

I only saw 2 strides before he stopped, then it has gone onto another video and I can not get back to the original one.

Those 2 strides were part of the refusal. He was ‘going backwards’, or as others are saying lacking impulsion. You need a forward canter to jump from.

[teddygirl]

I agree, that’s a very common schooling jump. You said you recently moved from a barn with more hunter type jumps so it’s possible that your horse isn’t used to this type of fence. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad or unsafe jump. The video is hard to see, but it looks like you’re a little underpowered and got to an in between spot. It’s not a big deal, it happens. Just pay attention to the quality of your canter more than focusing on the jump. Cute horse!

[Gardenhorse]

It was Burghley. There were two very vertical (not oxers) white gates that caused a lot of problems.

Edit: I’m sorry - I just looked it up and there were two sets of white fences that caused problems. Along with the gates that I remembered, there was also a set of very wide white oxers that also caused several falls.

[endlessclimb]

Thank you!

[ReesePcs]

Hi everyone, thanks so much!! I am going to put video from today. I’m doing a million things wrong I am sure, but it shows the two jumps we had trouble with. I think yesterday was a three way combination of the jump (which really was airy and white with sun in face), my distance, and my particular horse looking straight ahead at the fields/paying no attention.

I’m still going to err on the side of caution and use more filler.

January 17, 2021

[Renn_aissance]

I see two things in this video that I would have liked to do differently, with the caveat that it’s hard to tell from three steps away. First, I can’t see your front rail, but the position of your ground line looks quite far out and that can create an illusion about the horizontal spread of the jump. It looks like you may have seen a distance at the ground line, not at the actual vertical space of the jump. The purpose of a ground line is to help you and the horse correctly assess the height- the vertical plane- of the jump, and you want that calculation to be a vertical line, not the hypotenuse of a triangle. I would roll that ground line in so that it is within the front standard.

That said, I don’t think the problem is wholly your jump, because with your eye up and further direction to your horse you both would have ridden the rails of the jump. I think the problem was your canter and your physical response. You got to a distance that was suboptimal for the actual vertical and horizontal planes of the jump, and you weren’t able to get out of it because you didn’t have impulsion available in your canter to set your horse up on his hocks to jump out. In addition to that, two steps away, your upper body came forward and your shoulders rounded- you put your body weight over his shoulder. Lacking direction, and with you changing his balance, he declined.

Next time, an impulsive canter and keep your upper body tall with your core engaged. If you close the hip angle, you still carry your own posture. If you find yourself with a distance you don’t adore but it’s too late to change your mind, better to make a mistake with your aids saying forward- leg on, upper body tall and strong- than backwards or, in this case, possibly “Aw, shoot.”

[Redlei44]

@ReesePcs

I’m still going to err on the side of caution and use more filler.

That’s fine, you aren’t hurting anything with some filler, but I really think the jump build thing is a symptom, not a diagnosis. Very cute horse - he looks big, with a big stride, yes? So he kind of steps over 3’ and you can get down the lines before you know it? Love those critters, but from personal experience it makes it much easier to lose the quality of the canter because you can get away with it a lot of the time. Both of the jumps in the second video came up better (somewhat close, but not a miss) and not coincidentally your canter was better, but he still looks behind your leg. This will catch up with you - the occasional stop at a jump he doesn’t feel like trying at (no matter how it’s built), having more trouble as the jumps go up, etc.