Setting the Record straight on EVA!

[Equine_Reproduction]

@DownYonder;6404924

Yeah for Kathy! It needed to be said!

Another concern that maybe should be mentioned is the risk to a foal at side if the unvaccinated dam is bred with EVA positive semen. As Kathy and I have discussed before, the chances are pretty high that the foal will come into contact with post insemination vaginal secretions from the mare, and be at risk of developing a full blown case of respiratory EVA.

A couple of clarifications on your post DY ;). If the mare is unvaccinated, there is a good chance she “will” acquire the disease when she is bred. It is how it is perpetuated! Mother Nature is pretty amazing at making sure ALL of her creatures, good and bad, survive. So, with an unvaccinated mare, it’s not the vaginal secretions that you have to worry about only, it’s the fact that she will develop the respiratory version of the disease and thereby transmit it to her foal, as well. I personally will NOT breed a mare, even if she is vaccinated, to an EVA shedding stallion. It’s tough enough getting foals on the ground and it just isn’t worth the risk to me.

And I am really a bit about the vets these unsuspecting mare owners are using, that will breed unvaccinated mares with EVA positive semen. Or aren’t they being told the semen is positive? :sigh:

I suspect that they are either unfamiliar with the disease or the mare owners have not made them aware that the semen they are receiving is EVA positive. Downplaying the risks by the stallion owner gives mare owners a false sense of security

For the record, we agonized about putting this out there. But, under the circumstances and after receiving so many calls and emails, I am concerned that there are too many mare owners who just aren’t cognizant of the risks involved. I have NO issues breeding to an EVA positive stallion IF the proper protocols are followed. But they most emphatically need to be followed to the T.

[alexandra]

Wow !

Thanks for the information event though I will not breed to Redwine since I am in Europe, but Florencio is another populare example for EVA positive. And with he has a very open and informative german representative of semen in Germany !

And are you talking about “living” Vaccines or “artificial” ? What kind of difference does that make ?
I am asking as I know we can get only artificial over here (hope you understand - do not know the correct terms in english for that).

How come Redwine did catch EVA ? He was not positive before, was he ?

[Equine_Reproduction]

@alexandra;6405986

Wow !

Thanks for the information event though I will not breed to Redwine since I am in Europe, but Florencio is another populare example for EVA positive. And with he has a very open and informative german representative of semen in Germany !

Yes, there are a few well known stallions that are/were positive. Knowing and having accurate information is important so that mare owners can deal with the situation in a proactive, NOT reactive way.

And are you talking about “living” Vaccines or “artificial” ? What kind of difference does that make ?
I am asking as I know we can get only artificial over here (hope you understand - do not know the correct terms in english for that).

In Europe, the only vaccine available is a killed vaccine. It requires more vaccinations than with the modified live (which is what is available in North America) in order to have sufficient coverage. In the UK, stallions are required to be vaccinated every six months if they are indeed vaccinated. Missing one of those vaccinations is problelmatic as it then requires that the stallion be tested and the testing is really expensive on your side of the pond. Here in North America, we use a modified live vaccination which gives good coverage and only requires one vaccination with boosters annually. Even without boosting annually, the titers are “usually” sufficient for several years, although testing before breeding to be sure is ALWAYS a good idea!

How come Redwine did catch EVA ? He was not positive before, was he ?

No way of knowing when he contracted the disease. EVA positive stallions and semen can be imported to the U.S. - there are no testing requirements, so if he wasn’t tested before he left Germany, there is no knowing “when” he contracted the virus.

[Equine_Reproduction]

@rodawn;6404984

Although, according to the information I have, EAV/EVA needs testosterone to be harbored, so it can only be harbored in stallions, but mare owners who have done a recent vaccination within the 21 days should be (a) not sending their mares to a stallion or breeding facility for covering/insemination, and (b) should be notifying the stallion owner/repro vet/technician of her recent vaccinated status and clearance from the 21 day isolation period.

Just to be clear on this point. The vaccine “may” cause horses that come into contact with a vaccinated animal to sero-convert. However, it should be noted that the animals are not “contagious”. IN other words, a sero-converted horse will test positive for exposure to EVA, but won’t actually contract the disease. Never say never, but that’s the biggest issue. Additionally, especially in the case of stallions, you want to avoid contact with other animals during that isolation period to avoid the stallion possibly coming in contact with an animal that DOES have the disease before he has developed sufficient immunity. Make sense?

[alexandra]

@Equine Reproduction;6406138

[…] Even without boosting annually, the titers are “usually” sufficient for several years, although testing before breeding to be sure is ALWAYS a good idea! […]

Ah, now I understand a bit more. I was told that over here there are often mares that have a titer for EVA even though not vaccianated. Hence that told me to test the titer before breeding and vaccinating. I understand now that that titer would have been caused by a living vaccination so to say because someone had been infected…
At the time Florencio was EVA positive in the first year, the only source of info Í found on the internet was in english and on US sites (must have been 2005). In Germany people were pretty uninformed. So we tested the titer of my mare and found that to be negative. Than I talked to the german station that represented Florencio and was pretty well informed by them. I felt secure with the protocol they recommended and the info I had found on the internet. But the vet at the palce I boarded at that time was neither informed not does he speak, read english. So he was a bit insecure and hence the owners of the facility, too. I did not want to get into some sort of trouble. In case something would have happenes at the farm with foals or unborn foals in any case there would have been a bad taste of my breeding to Florencio. Hence I decided not to breed. But that was just due to uninformed people in my surroundings.

[TrueColours]

Out of curiosity, with so many horses at Gray Fox Farm in close proximity to one another - stallions, in foal mares, open mares, foals, etc - what are the realistic chances that the disease can be spread to the other stallions? To ungelded colts? To mares in foal?

What are the realistic chances of any of the foals contracting the respiratory part of the virus?

In other words - for someone perhaps thinking of buying a mare that is supposed to be in foal, or an ungelded colt from Jill Burnell, what are the “extra” questions that need to be asked? What are the extra tests that need to be done? And I think most importantly of all - how can the buyer be assured that the “clean” certificate that is faxed or emailed to them is actually legit and is actually a true and acccurate representation of the state of health of that specific animal?

If Jill has / is vaccinating her other stallions on a regular basis - what are the chances they have or will contract EVA? Nil?

What is the earliest a young colt can contract the virus from a sneezing, affected mare that is in the same paddock with him?

Thanks Kathy … … as always

[ldaziens]

Burnell Bump

Bump

[Flashback]

I posted this on the other thread about Jill burnell, but since this more specifically pertains to EVA, I figured I would share it here since the other thread is so long.

I am unfortunately one of those that got the whole, “EVA isn’t really a big deal” stories. I did vaccinate, and she did give me the vaccine for free, but when I asked if I subsequently had to separate out my other broodies when I bred, I was told no. So, long story short, I feel a bit like an idiot, and my other broodmare aborted her pregnancy between her 30 and 50 day check.

Granted, I should have known better; I knew that EVA caused abortions, but I was trying to take what I heard on good faith. I wanted to believe that the negative things I had come across were isolated incidents. If I had dug further, I wouldn’t have an open broodmare right now.

And I realize that correlation does not imply causation, but someone much better versed in these things than I feels as though the time frame is right for that to have been the cause.

My mare aborted within 3 wks of the other mare being bred and her being exposed.

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=Flashback;6513292]
I posted this on the other thread about Jill burnell, but since this more specifically pertains to EVA, I figured I would share it here since the other thread is so long.

I am unfortunately one of those that got the whole, “EVA isn’t really a big deal” stories. I did vaccinate, and she did give me the vaccine for free, but when I asked if I subsequently had to separate out my other broodies when I bred, I was told no. So, long story short, I feel a bit like an idiot, and my other broodmare aborted her pregnancy between her 30 and 50 day check.

Granted, I should have known better; I knew that EVA caused abortions, but I was trying to take what I heard on good faith. I wanted to believe that the negative things I had come across were isolated incidents. If I had dug further, I wouldn’t have an open broodmare right now.

And I realize that correlation does not imply causation, but someone much better versed in these things than I feels as though the time frame is right for that to have been the cause.

My mare aborted within 3 wks of the other mare being bred and her being exposed.[/QUOTE]
This is a shocking scenario. This post, and Kathy’s need to be combined with the GFF thread.

[Flashback]

[QUOTE=Cartier;6513497]
This is a shocking scenario. This post, and Kathy’s need to be combined with the GFF thread.[/QUOTE]

If you are referencing the currently 43 pg thread, it is there too.

[Cartier]

[QUOTE=Flashback;6513611]
If you are referencing the currently 43 pg thread, it is there too.[/QUOTE]

Is it that long? Wow! Yes, I was referring to this thread http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365037 with over 106,000 views.

I think that what Kathy is saying here, and what she quotes from Dr. Timothy (in the context of that thread) combined with other misleading statement being made, needs to be out in the public domain in BIG BOLD PRINT. As breeders, we totally understand how important it is to have accurate info out in the public domain.

[TWF]

Detecting an EVA triggered abortion?

@Flashback;6513292

I posted this on the other thread about Jill burnell, but since this more specifically pertains to EVA, I figured I would share it here since the other thread is so long.

I am unfortunately one of those that got the whole, “EVA isn’t really a big deal” stories. I did vaccinate, and she did give me the vaccine for free, but when I asked if I subsequently had to separate out my other broodies when I bred, I was told no. So, long story short, I feel a bit like an idiot, and my other broodmare aborted her pregnancy between her 30 and 50 day check.

Granted, I should have known better; I knew that EVA caused abortions, but I was trying to take what I heard on good faith. I wanted to believe that the negative things I had come across were isolated incidents. If I had dug further, I wouldn’t have an open broodmare right now.

And I realize that correlation does not imply causation, but someone much better versed in these things than I feels as though the time frame is right for that to have been the cause.

My mare aborted within 3 wks of the other mare being bred and her being exposed.

I am very sorry for your loss. I’m sure you are one of many who lost a foal in this sick story.

Losing a perfectly formed and growing foal makes my heart sick. If mares in a band are being bred to EVA positive stallions ….the un-vaccinated are at a huge risk.

I read the resource from Georgia Ag http://www.agr.georgia.gov/Data/Sites/1/media/ag_animalindustry/animal_health/files/equineviralarteritis.pdf

MY Question: How long can the respiratory form linger or be sustained in a herd of horses undetected? Can a carrier state develop in geldings or mares and other equines (donkeys etc) who “got through” EVA to become unrecognized shedders? This is enough to blow your entire breeding program by having one break in the protocol chain.

Equine Repro…For the breeders in general…
Can you explain how EVA presents in an aborted fetus - AUTOLYSIS? What signs and symptoms to define an EVA triggered abortion? Is there a change in the fluids, character of the uterine environment that distinguishes it from a spontaneous abortion? How would one test an aborted foal for that other than the virus culture?

ldaziens…thank you for the astute BUMP.

[TWF]

Carrier stallions and their semen are denied import into most countries

EVA is A carrier state develops in stallions that were sexually mature at the time of initial EAV exposure that may result in persistent shedding of the EAV in semen. Stallions may remain carriers for weeks, months, years, or indefinitely. Intermittent shedding does not occur; however, some stallions exposed to the EAV virus will undergo serological conversion, but not be responsible for shedding the virus or may initially shed EAV and later become non-shedders.
Carrier stallions and their semen are denied import into most countries …other than the United States and Canada.

Regarding aborted foals: [B]Aborted fetuses may only show autolysis on gross examination.

[/B]Another very precise resource with links :
http://www.holmesfarmwalkers.com/EVA-info.htm

[ldaziens]

Jill Burnell Gray Fox Farms FACTS thread

Bump.
Also, I started a Jill Burnell Gray Fox Farms Facts Thread, because there was a valid point that troll feeding and venting / humor take up space and may cause readers to miss out on key facts.
http://chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=365564

I will post a link to this thread on the facts thread.

I have a hurricane possibly coming to the New Orleans area, so I need to deal w/ that. Additionally, I have a complete lack of expertise on breeding, etc. so any help getting concise facts / statements posted on that thread would be appreciated.

I do not think it is a terrible thing to have a record breaking thread getting tons of views if it leads to making more people aware – even if there is a little humor / venting; but it would be good to have a strictly facts / statements page IF people keep it bumped up.

[RubyTuesday]

[QUOTE=Daventry;6404696]
I remember being directed to Jill’s EVA misinformation a while back. For those that don’t believe truth is indeed stranger than fiction…here are Jill’s direct quotes regarding EVA on another public bulletin board:

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/rosalies-gold-sally-b-wheeler-class-updated-429479-6.html#post6072898

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/rosalies-gold-sally-b-wheeler-class-updated-429479-6.html#post6072912

http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-forums/rosalies-gold-sally-b-wheeler-class-updated-429479-6.html#post6072917

Unfortunately, this is now out there on a public forum for all Mare Owners to read…and trust what is being said. :eek: And if this is what is being said in an open forum, what are Mare Owners being told in private? I have to admit, as a Mare Owner, if I had planned to breed to an EVA positive stallion, I would have trusted the Stallion Owner to walk me through the correct protocols and wouldn’t have thought twice about it. Who would honestly think the Stallion Owner would be dishonest about it and potentially put other horses and the horse industry at further risk. :no: Honestly, are there no limits to the insanity?[/QUOTE]

A perfect example of why we have to check and recheck “facts” in our animal sports and have to ask several opinions to be sure we do indeed have all the “facts”.