Shared Driveway- Should I say something.... (alternate title, help me not be a b!t($)

[Pennywell_Bay]

For the first time in a long time, I am stuck on how to finish a conversation… Typically I am decent with this type of issue, standing up for myself but still maintaining a feel-good atmosphere,

We share a driveway with 2 other properties (I will never do this again). Part of the covenance (filed with the county) says we will split the driveway repairs in thirds. No problem.

Last week my neighbor patched some potholes in the drive, which he has done in the past.

Last week he texts hubby (which is odd because I do all the property maintenance and scheduling but I digress) and says he spent XXX on repairs, do we want to chip in. Hubby texts he’ll have me stop over to chat. When I stopped over they haven’t been home.

The amount is sooo nominal I do not want to make a fuss, however, I want some clarification. And I would have like a head’s up this was being done in advance. Not just financial (it is really a low amount) but dodging patches along the driveway- I could have coordinated schedules differently.

1. He now runs he electrical business out of his home. Not a store front. They have 4 driving adults living in the home, plus they have 4 employees.

2. The employees are there 5 days a week.

3. They take the company trucks and vans up and down the drive several times a day.

4. We have 2 adults, one works remotely 3 days a week- horse trailer or truck goes out about 1nce a week. I do not even know if the driver part is relevant- give me your thoughts. (would it matter if we had 4 adults driving? we still have the convenance).
   5… The amount is so low, I feel ridiculous even bringing it up.:sigh:

5. I do feel that for bigger repairs, splitting it thirds may not be fair, as they have significant more traffic on the drive, that they are using for business purposes not just home. (which- having a business if prohibited by covenance and zoning. But since they don’t have “customers” coming to the home zoning is irrelevant). Setting a precedent and all…

6. They also have a big trash truck that comes 1nce a week to switch out the business dumpster (and they have 2 giant RVs that are out and about since the grandparents are retired).

7. My driveway comes in 2/3s down the main driveway so I don’t use the whole drive. Just to give you a visual.

I want to be a good neighbor. I do not want bad feelings. I just want to point out that the above if I can do so without sounding like a bitch-------- which is hard since I can be pretty blunt. :uhoh:

“Mr. Pennywell got the text with the amount. Are we splitting it in thirds OR…” this I need advice.

I’m mulling the discussion. It isn’t the price, it is that in the future- if we need the whole drive torn the cost will be bigger and they are causing more wear and tear on it. Of course, we abide by the covenance which is 1/3 each.

A few years ago, the 3 families debated getting the whole drive repaved. They wanted to use 1 estimate (which was a client of theirs) and I wanted 3. I also had the estimates done to where our (stone) drive comes in and divided it in thirds, which seems reasonable as the WHOLE driveway is not used by us and significantly longer ( by about 500 feet, guesstimate) and they split the remainder by 2. The other families decided not to have the driveway done so we just went along with the consensus.

Is this a conversation worth having? We don’t mind splitting the repair bill, I just kind of want to let them know Hey- you use it more and with heavier equipment so in the future we have to revisit the financial division… Mr. Pennywell feels this is too blunt to say and said "I am REALLLYY glad you are the one having these conversations).

[mmeqcenter]

Yes this is a conversation worth having, and I think it is absolutely worth reworking the covenance and refiling it with the county - before a major repair is needed.

Schedule a time for all heads of households to sit and discuss. Bring up your completely valid points - agreeing to repairs and costs before they’re done, volume of use, extension past your house that you don’t use, etc.

I also share a drive with two houses. Okay well technically I’m on a 3/4 mile private road with like 20 houses, but there’s a 700’ or so stretch that ends in my house and two others that I’m focusing on here. I’m pretty sure the drive after a certain point is supposed to just be mine, and I’m pretty sure their fences are encroaching on what is technically my easement, but I haven’t had time to look into it all yet. Anyway, I would never just make a repair out of the blue and be like “Hey you owe me this much.”

[ShotenStar]

I live in a community of 16 houses that all share a private road / driveway system. Maintenance and repairs on the roads are the only reason we ever have community meetings. Our covenants are quite clear - equal shares all around - even though some houses are at the end of the road and drive on the entire length and some are close to the public road and drive on only a few-ish feet. Some of us have horse trailers and private businesses that bring in extra traffic, the rest do not.

For the big repairs, we meet and discuss. The community has a ‘road dues’ requirement and we draw from that account for most work. When the amount of the needed work exceeds the amount in the kitty, some of us ‘pay our dues in advance’ to fund the difference.

In your particular case, I would recommend paying your one-third share of the current patching expenses. For future, large scale repair / replace work, a group meeting to discuss the whys and wherefores is in order. The idea of those who have heavier use needs paying more than one-third can be raised then. I would not bring up the issue of larger costs, beyond reminding everyone of the need to discuss / agree upon big repairs, until it actually happens. That leaves too much time for people to fuss and fret about it.

star

[Saidapal]

“Mr. Pennywell got the text with the amount. Are we splitting it in thirds OR…” this I need advice.

Mr. Pennywell, I received your text and will gladly pay my third. But in the future I think we may need to take some things into consideration. Can I meet with you to discuss?

Try to meet face to face and then state your points to open the dialog.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Saidapal

“Mr. Pennywell got the text with the amount. Are we splitting it in thirds OR…” this I need advice.

Mr. Pennywell, I received your text and will gladly pay my third. But in the future I think we may need to take some things into consideration. Can I meet with you to discuss?

Try to meet face to face and then state your points to open the dialog.

LOL.Mr. Pennywell is my hubb. :congratulatory: who hates any conversation that is at all uncomfortable (that’s why I take care of everything) .

But that ending is what I have been toying with formulating. Thanks!!

[Calamber]

The issue is with the county too, that is, there is a business in your neighborhood? Is this allowed?! Even in very conservative almost to nutball area in Washington State (not Seattle obviously, their nutballs are of a different flavor), it is not legal to have a business in residential areas. This is a conversation you need to have once you have that at least answered, but essentially, “you have commercial vehicles and many multiples of people coming into your property, and we are a residence, how can we come to an amicable, fair agreement with that taken into consideration” is what i would say up front after first question is answered.

[OneTwoMany]

@Pennywell Bay

We share a driveway with 2 other properties (I will never do this again). Part of the covenance (filed with the county) says we will split the driveway repairs in thirds.

I think the above sentence is the root of the matter. If the conveyance says the cost of the repairs is to be split in thirds, there isn’t much to argue about. The other party with the four driving adults and the four employees is clearly getting the better end of the deal, but he isn’t doing anything wrong assuming your zoning allows a home business.

You could certainly try to negotiate better terms for yourself, but it isn’t clear why the neighbor would give up his relatively better deal in return for nothing.

Our barn shares a driveway as well. No formal agreement is in place. Neighbor helps with the plowing in the winter, we take care of the rest of the upkeep. Neighbor has a home business with one or two employees.

[fordtraktor]

It’s legal to have a business in most rural-ish areas. I believe Pennywell has a farm in a different part of my state. It’s certainly legal here and my farm borders a housing development on one side. There’s a Welding company across the street from the development run out of a house and buildings behind it, and a few random stores.

If the covenant says 1/3 you will have to pay 1/3 unless your neighbor is extremely generous, so I would approach EXTREMELY POLITELY and with cookies. He won’t have to cut you a break at all.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@fordtraktor

It’s legal to have a business in most rural-ish areas. I believe Pennywell has a farm in a different part of my state. It’s certainly legal here and my farm borders a housing development on one side. There’s a Welding company across the street from the development run out of a house and buildings behind it, and a few random stores.

If the covenant says 1/3 you will have to pay 1/3 unless your neighbor is extremely generous, so I would approach EXTREMELY POLITELY and with cookies. He won’t have to cut you a break at all.

We have a good relationship with said neighbor. I have watched their kids when they were stuck for AM care before school, they are nice people. I can be blunt so I need to be delicate. The person from whom they bought the property had approached us that the new buyers (current owners) would be running a business from the property and we should “turn them in”. Ug. None of his business, don’t know why he had any skin in the game. I haven’t checked the ordinance, I don’t really “care”. Due to the sprawl of the city we live closest to, we are technically “in the city” (ba ha ha).

I need to dig out the paperwork and see what it says, exactly. I remember it does have a definition of “use” as far as totality of the stretch for which one is liable. I do think he should have let us know he was going to be doing work and to expect a bill. The covenant covers ridiculous things collective “we” neighbors don’t enforce- it says “no goats”, my neighbor has a herd and sheep… and alpacas…, it says no more than 2 dogs- every neighbor has more than 2 and the list goes on and on (originally made by nasty first owner of property who wanted me to “turn neighbors in” after property sold). We have every intention of abiding by the covenant, I was asking for opinions and appreciate the input.

Again- I am actually the neighbor all the neighbors (even the non-driveway sharing ones) comes to for help/advice/problems and as a go between of neighbors. For instance- when my neighbors goats were getting loose and raiding the neighborhood- people called me to 1. help with the loose critters (oh- and alpacs on the run) 2. Talk to neighbors about adequate fencing and gates since my animals stay in place,. Or when my other neighbor had chickens that decided to roost under my neighbors window and they weren’t getting anywhere with the neighbor- Pennywell can talk to him.

I’m going to go over and try to catch them before they leave for the day (that’s the only time I know someone is home).

[NoSuchPerson]

I have no advice, just sympathy. Difficulties over a shared driveway were a big part of why I sold my last place and also why I find it difficult to say my former neighbor’s name without adding “that b@$tard.” :lol:

[danacat]

@Pennywell Bay

I do feel that for bigger repairs, splitting it thirds may not be fair, as they have significant more traffic on the drive, that they are using for business purposes not just home. (which- having a business if prohibited by covenance and zoning. But since they don’t have “customers” coming to the home zoning is irrelevant). Setting a precedent and all…
7. They also have a big trash truck that comes 1nce a week to switch out the business dumpster (and they have 2 giant RVs that are out and about since the grandparents are retired).

don’t mind splitting the repair bill, I just kind of want to let them know Hey- you use it more and with heavier equipment so in the future we have to revisit the financial division.

Following with interest. I am in the EXACT same situation. Blue bolds ^^^ are the similarities + son and his new wife now live there too + grandparents = 6 adults who drive and I am a ONE person household.

Haven’t been asked to share in any repairs because none are needed – yet. But I too feel it’s unfair to pay a third in such a situation.

[JanM]

I think you should pay the one-third this time.

However, request that you be told if future repairs are contemplated. Also, could you and the other two owners get together and rewrite the covenants? Take out the parts no one obeys, or cares about, and work out the other issues that should be in the covenants.

The former owner sounds like a controlling jerk too.

[clanter]

@Pennywell Bay

We have a good relationship with said neighbor. I have watched their kids when they were stuck for AM care before school, they are nice people. I can be blunt so I need to be delicate. The person from whom they bought the property had approached us that the new buyers (current owners) would be running a business from the property and we should “turn them in”. Ug. None of his business, don’t know why he had any skin in the game. I haven’t checked the ordinance, I don’t really “care”. Due to the sprawl of the city we live closest to, we are technically “in the city” (ba ha ha).

actually you may fall under what is called extraterritorial jurisdiction that subjects you to the nearby city’s ordinances … you might want to check

[Pennywell_Bay]

Chatted with neighbor. We are paying a little less than 1/3.
Lots a small talk, I hurt my knee, his son is overseas we see each other’s videos on FB blah blah
Me: How did you want to split the bill
Neighbor: Rodney (other neighbor) is going to give me $300 so…I’ve spent about $1000 (he’s doing all the work)
Me: Ok. Can you let me know when so Indont drive over it?
N: oh it’s good if you drive and help tamp it down
Me: just so I know and don’t get tar on my new truck
N: I’ll shoot you a text
Me: Any thought on a total redo? Future plans? Thinking a head to how to split the bill?
N: I think it looks great so I have no desire to spend the money. I’m having a bbq with all the neighbors- make sure you can make it.

So- nothing really resolved for future issue yet. I’ll wait until they have a few beers in them (just kidding).

[Jim_in_PA]

I’m glad you got some consensus with the neighbor(s) for this repair cycle.

One thing that really has to be considered in the future when it’s time to re-pave is that paving for typical residential use may not be supportive enough for the increased traffic levels that having a small fleet of business vehicles going up and down the lane really requires. “Business” paving tends to be thicker and most often done similar to how roads are paved with a base layer followed by a finish layer, the combination often in the 4-6" thickness range. Most residential goes down with just one layer and is most often in the 2.5-3.5" thickness range. I know this from recent conversations with several contractors as I’m having our lengthy driveway paved the middle of next week, as a matter of fact.

[hank]

I have learned that having good neighbors is not worth sparring over small stuff. I have very good neighbors and try to be a good one. The he!! That results from bad neighbors is just not worth it.

It sounds like you reached a fair and equitable decision for now. If these people don’t poison your animals or open gates or have loud parties or flip you off or steal your stuff, count your blessings and keep communication open regarding future repairs.

[CHT]

It sounds like the neighbour is putting in the work as well as some of the costs? If so, it sounds like he is paying more than a 1/3 in both supplies and sweat, so I am guessing he recognizes he has more responsibility for the road already. You might be worrying about something for nothing.

[yaya]

@Jim_in_PA

I’m glad you got some consensus with the neighbor(s) for this repair cycle.

One thing that really has to be considered in the future when it’s time to re-pave is that paving for typical residential use may not be supportive enough for the increased traffic levels that having a small fleet of business vehicles going up and down the lane really requires. “Business” paving tends to be thicker and most often done similar to how roads are paved with a base layer followed by a finish layer, the combination often in the 4-6" thickness range. Most residential goes down with just one layer and is most often in the 2.5-3.5" thickness range. I know this from recent conversations with several contractors as I’m having our lengthy driveway paved the middle of next week, as a matter of fact.

And the dumpster truck is super heavy. That alone will break down insufficient paving in a hurry. (Which is why I kept my drive to the barn gravel - easier to regrade when the dumpster truck makes ruts.)

[Palm_Beach]

“We share a driveway with 2 other properties (I will never do this again). Part of the covenance (filed with the county) says we will split the driveway repairs in thirds. No problem.”

Then you have to split the cost of the repairs. I think you are making a big stink and risk alienating a good neighbor. Keeping up with small repairs on a regular basis keeps the big fat ugly repair bills away.

You do need to review the paperwork and abide by it. If you start whining about “use” then you are really really opening up a can of worms and you will never get those wiggly little suckers back in. Do you really want him to start keeping track of your vehicles, size, frequency up and down the driveway, visitors, etc?

You sound like you have a great thing going with all your neighbors, why go and ruin it? Just suck it up as part of the cost of living in the country and keeping the peace. This just does not seem to be a battle you need to create and fight.

[Kmacht]

I have to ask, what type of patching is he doing that cost $1000? That seems a bit outrageous to fix some pot holes. I would suggest setting a price threshold for notifying neighbors before doing any work. That $300 this month could be another $300 next month, $500 the month after, etc all with no control on when or how any of the work gets done.

Keith