I am trying to educate myself and I understand so much more than I did last week. The owner is so convinced that this horse does not have Shivers that if we see any signs or symptoms of shivers in the next year he will take the horse back for a full refund…YIKES
I the horse does have only mild shivers it may be difficult to detect. Shivers is thought be some to be a degenerative neurological disorder that progressively worsens over time. The time it takes for those symptoms to seriously effect the use of the horse can vary from horse to horse. So a valid diagnosis of shivers is an important consideration to weigh when considering the purchase of a horse with shivers.
Knowing exactly what symptoms the vet made the diagnosis from, is the first step to validating that they are indeed shivers symptoms with another vet.
Vet #3 is my vote - get someone in who has experience with neurological conditions. I had a horse with a subtle neurological issue that DID get worse - it took him more than a year to degenerate and it was heartbreaking.
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata;6498864]
Still waiting for the report from my vet…the owner of the horse brought in a second vet that he paid for who said this horse did not have shivers. Almost need a third vet to come in for a tie-breaker. And this horse is not cheap…which is why the owner will guarantee against shivers for one year…so anxious to hear what the first vet saw…how 2 vets have such conflicting opinions…but this is a business after all.[/QUOTE]
I’ve always heard one of the rules when vetting a horse you’re going to purchase is - to use your own vet. Or a vet you picked.
Getting an opinion from the vet the seller using, can be obviously, very, very biased.
I would be inclined to give more weight to the vet I paid for vs. the seller’s vet. Also, I assume this is all going to be in a contract if you buy this horse? What if you are sure after six months that yes, the horse has shivers, and the seller disagrees?
I would not buy an expensive horse with shivers. I would not buy a horse with shivers if I didn’t have my own farm to retire him/her to if the progression got to severe. This is just me.
I bought an FEI horse with shivers. As long as I kept him away from sugary foods and kept him moving, he was fine. The only sign was when picking his feet you had to let him rest them on your legs because he couldn’t hold them still on his own.
He’s now 26 and happily retired, with no symptoms.
[QUOTE=SBrentnall;6500944]
I bought an FEI horse with shivers. As long as I kept him away from sugary foods and kept him moving, he was fine. The only sign was when picking his feet you had to let him rest them on your legs because he couldn’t hold them still on his own.
He’s now 26 and happily retired, with no symptoms.[/QUOTE]
That is a great happy ending with shivers! Do you mind me asking if the horse is still yours or did you ever sell him?
I had a long conversation with my vet who examined this horse today. He said this horse has a mild case of Shivers but says he does not doubt that he does have shivers. He said he noticed it when he flexed his hind right leg. The tail of the horse shivered. He then went to the other leg and the tail shivered again and the shivers went slightly down his upper leg. He has no issues with the farrier at this time.
He said that the horse may only shiver occasionally at this point and you may have to lift his leg 10 times and he may only shiver once. He was being kind by saying that the owner’s vet may not have seen it. He also said you would not be able to notice it by watching him walk.
He said many horses with shivers have long and successful careers. He said this was a wonderful horse and the shivers may never play a huge part in his life.
He said that the horse may stay like this for a year or 10 years but could also deteriorate quickly. No way of knowing…we don’t have our own barn where we could retire him if he starting deteriorating quickly and we would not have money to buy my daughter another horse if we could not sell this one. It is such a gamble and we are leaning towards passing on this horse.
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata;6500981]
I had a long conversation with my vet who examined this horse today. He said this horse has a mild case of Shivers but says he does not doubt that he does have shivers. He said he noticed it when he flexed his hind right leg. The tail of the horse shivered. He then went to the other leg and the tail shivered again and the shivers went slightly down his upper leg. He has no issues with the farrier at this time.
He said that the horse may only shiver occasionally at this point and you may have to lift his leg 10 times and he may only shiver once. He was being kind by saying that the owner’s vet may not have seen it. He also said you would not be able to notice it by watching him walk.
He said many horses with shivers have long and successful careers. He said this was a wonderful horse and the shivers may never play a huge part in his life.
He said that the horse may stay like this for a year or 10 years but could also deteriorate quickly. No way of knowing…we don’t have our own barn where we could retire him if he starting deteriorating quickly and we would not have money to buy my daughter another horse if we could not sell this one. It is such a gamble and we are leaning towards passing on this horse.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anyone could ever fault you for making that choice. It’s based on a vet’s opinion, and likely the prudent choice for your situation.
[QUOTE=Hakuna 
And this was him in his prime:
[IMG]http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/SBrentnall/Austin/Canter-WalkSerpentine1.jpg)
[QUOTE=SBrentnall;6500993]
He’s st
And this was him in his prime:
[IMG]http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/SBrentnall/Austin/Canter-WalkSerpentine1.jpg)[/QUOTE]
He’s beautiful.
That is one of the difficult things with shivers, as there are thought to be multiple causes for the syndrome. EPSM (equine polysaccharide storage myopathy) is thought by some to be one possible cause.
As such a low sugar, high fat diet could conceivably manage the symptoms very well if EPSM is indeed the cause of shivers for a particular horse.
But the problem is one may not know for sure if EPSM is the cause for a particular horse until enough time has passed to understand fully how dietary change effects that particular horse.
I have also been told this by my vet plus many other folks. I took a horse with shivers (for free) and now I wouldn’t trade him for anything. It is a tough decision to make though, I’ll give you that!
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata;6497067]
…Last week had a PPE done on a 10 year old quarter horse that I am looking to buy for my 12 year old. …[/QUOTE]
Is his HYPP status known?
which is why the owner will guarantee against shivers for one year…
But how would you even prove that then if the vets won’t agree now…and why only one year. Shivers can progress extremely slowly.
I don’t understand this. SHivers has very classic signs. The vet must have seen something which was symptomatic. I would give not much weight to opinion of vet hired by the seller. That is a conflict of interest. Hire another vet if you don’t trust your first vet’s opinion.
not saying you should not buy him but if he has this it should be taken into account in the price. The seller insisting this or that would not impress me much. I’d be more interested in the opinion of good vet NOT hired by seller.
Two varieties of PSSM can be tested for and the AQHA has a testing program for reduced cost. Call the AQHA about getting him tested. PSSM 1and PSSM 2 is how they are diffentiated I believe. Also I would not brand this horse as having PSSM unles it was confirmed with testing…it is just not fair to the future of the horse…as it stands you have a symptom but not a diagnosis. Tell the owner to have the horse tested as the final test. PatO
Not all horses with shivers have PSSM although the conditons can co exist.
OK…so I have become so interested In shivers…would anyone with experience with it know if it ever is associated with a horses loss of appetite.
I would say no, not appetite related, however I do find that EPSM horses seem more prone to ulcers perhaps due to stress from the sore muscles or ?
If you really like this horse I’d get a third opinion by a vet who has experience in neurology.
…“and the horse is not cheap”…
The owner is in a tough spot now - likely the horse will not sell to anybody
at the price asked. He may become available at a very reduced price.
Shame - but do you think you should pay a high price for the responsibility you are taking on?
