Shivers Symptoms

[FineAlready]

Could owners of horses with Shivers please tell me about the first symptoms their horses presented with? What made you/your vet suspect Shivers?

Problems with farrier? If so, what sort of problems?

One or both hind legs trembling while being held (even if not being jerked away)?

Jerking hind leg away when lifted and hopping on opposing hind leg?

Hind end lameness that comes and goes/varies in severity/doesn’t respond to “ordinary” treatments (hock, stifle injections, for example)?

Visible muscle tremors?

Do any of the above sound like Shivers to those of you experienced with the disease? Other ideas? Other symptoms? I’m at a loss, but I have a thoroughbred that I suspect may have either Shivers or PSSM.

[Sarabeth]

First symptom my horse showed is that it was hard to pick his right rear foot. He’d lift the leg too high and then jerk it back and forth a few times. When we did something exciting like go for a trailer ride, both back legs would tremble quite a bit.

What you describe sure sounds like shivers, except the hind end lameness that doesn’t respond to hock and stifle injections might be SI trouble or back pain (my horse has both those problems, too, and was diagnosed by nuke scan and xray).

The good news about shivers is that by adding canola oil to his diet and watching carbs per my vets instructions, the shivers symptoms lessened, and the condition has not worsened for years. He’s older and retired now, but shivers never affected his performance undersaddle.

[FineAlready]

Thank you, Sarabeth. Did your horse have particular trouble when the farrier nailed into one or both hind hooves?

He has no back pain on palpation, and multiple vets, including a vet that does chiro don’t seem to think it is a back issue. SI has been mentioned, but they don’t seem to really think that is it.

Was your horse lame under saddle at all? Mine seems to get considerably worse after being trimmed/shod, but it vets do not think it is hoof related - it seems to be “something else” that is triggered by having his legs held for the farrier. He has never had issues with the farrier before, so this is a fairly new development.

All of the muscles in his rump are EXTREMELY tight. He is on robaxin right now, and it has improved him quite a bit, but he is still not quite right and still has some trouble picking up the left hind leg.

[Miichelle]

I thought that Shivers was just one of many possible symtoms of EPSM/PSSM?

[FineAlready]

They are separate diseases.

[RacetrackReject]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;6321087]
Could owners of horses with Shivers please tell me about the first symptoms their horses presented with? What made you/your vet suspect Shivers?

Problems with farrier? If so, what sort of problems?

One or both hind legs trembling while being held (even if not being jerked away)?

Jerking hind leg away when lifted and hopping on opposing hind leg?

Hind end lameness that comes and goes/varies in severity/doesn’t respond to “ordinary” treatments (hock, stifle injections, for example)?

Visible muscle tremors?

Do any of the above sound like Shivers to those of you experienced with the disease? Other ideas? Other symptoms? I’m at a loss, but I have a thoroughbred that I suspect may have either Shivers or PSSM. :([/QUOTE]

My guy has all of your symptoms except the hind end lameness. With supplementing vitamin E and keeping him off grains (alfalfa chafe and a complete pellet plus grass pasture) he hasn’t progressed any in several years. I’ve had him since he was 4 and he’s 13 now and he is a TB.

[columbus]

I had EPSM Difficulty with the right hind leg…I remember having the vet out and the flexion test was passed(?) but the behavior during the flexion test was an important sign in the end. The vet flexed he limb and when it was released the horse wouldn’t trot off but would gallop off. Vets didn’t know much about it then and were kind of stupid about accepting it was a problem…and they weren’t much help with it either. The issues with the farrier only got worse. We tried a tranquilizer as the process of doing the right hind really made the horse panic…having a 1700 pound horse tranquilized as you picked up a rear foot was not te farriers favorite choice either. There wasn’t a lot of “diagnosis” at the time. We just went into what was then the high fat low carb diet and saw a lot of improvement…however it was clear the diet helped all the horses who were then nearly all on sweet feed. Good luck. Check with you University they are learning lots about these horses as we speak. Pato

[Foxtrot_s]

Selenium, Vitamin E deficiency/

[DLee]

Yes, those were all symptoms that started the Shivers ball rolling. He had a cut on that foot when I bought him and I naively thought he was reacting to that. He was actually the only horse I ever had vetted, and he ‘passed’ the vet, amazingly although it became clear later that vet had no idea what Shivers was.

He also had great difficulty backing up, would swing his leg out to the side, be very uncoordinated, his tail would tremble.

He did not improve with dietary changes and I had to have him put down at 10. He was the biggest, sweetest guy (a Seattle Slew grandson) ever. Best of luck with yours, I hope it goes better for you.

[dodedo]

I have one with shivers. Have kept him on Cocosoya oil and that has really helped.
Presents as lifting and trembling of hind legs and the horse has no control over when it happens.
Before farrier we try to either ride him or make sure he was turned out as that seems to help a lot. If he has been standing in the stall then the shivers can be a bit worse.
Yes they seem to act up when the nails are driven. Must be from the vibration. Pain also will trigger it like an abcess…had an abcess and it made his shivers horrible until the abcess broke through that foot.
Oddest thing but who cares because it works…when he starts the shivering, if you just take your thumb and press between the bulbs of his heel then he immediately relaxes and stops shivering. Must be a pressure point for him… Farrier uses this and it a
Ways seems to work though he and a trainer have said they have never seen it work on any other horse with shivers.
As far as the tail, it does lift a little and move to the side when or a nano second before he shivers.
Doesnt effect his performance and he jumps 3’6" and moves great. We have just learned to live with it because he is worth it. Only time I was cursing it was when he had the abcess and I had to keep that foot wrapped and packed.
A bad fungus that is irritating, if it is on the back pasterns or cannon bones will cause an increase too.
Just pleSe make sure your farrier is patient and understanding as the horse CANNOT help it of control it and a bad farrier will lose temper and punish the horse which doesn’t help at all!

[Sentry_Chick]

Could owners of horses with Shivers please tell me about the first symptoms their horses presented with? What made you/your vet suspect Shivers? I actually started to notice things when he was eating out in the pasture and I noticed him hitching his hind leg up.

Problems with farrier? If so, what sort of problems?Started out by him jerking his hind legs from the farriers hold. Totally not in the horses character to do that. Didn’t suspect anything medical at the time, thoughts were more on horse just didn’t jive with farrier

One or both hind legs trembling while being held (even if not being jerked away)? Usually started when you first go to lift the leg, will jerk it up, tremble then when he relaxes you can hold it
Jerking hind leg away when lifted and hopping on opposing hind leg? Yes
Hind end lameness that comes and goes/varies in severity/doesn’t respond to “ordinary” treatments (hock, stifle injections, for example)? No lameness issues

Visible muscle tremors? Some

Do any of the above sound like Shivers to those of you experienced with the disease? Other ideas? Other symptoms? I’m at a loss, but I have a thoroughbred that I suspect may have either Shivers or PSSM.

My guy does suffer from back pain. When he has his legs in the air and gets off balanced, he’s twisting his back and hips. I keep my guy turned out 24/7, on low start diet, supplement him with Vit E/selenium and I have him on MSM and glucosamine for good measure. Its hard on all his joints so I want to keep him comfortable. On bad days, I give him some asprin too. He also gets worse in the rainy season and the ground gets really muddy. The harder he has to pull his legs up and out of the mud, the more you see his symtoms

Forgot to add that Scout just had his feet trimmed and this time the farrier (new one and 1st time with Scout) had to actually let him rest his hind hooves so that they rested on the floor on his toes so she could trim and file them. She was great with him and had alot of patience.

Here’s a few good links on Shivers:

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers/home.html
http://www.equineshivers.com/
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2006/pdf/z9100106000359.pdf

[FineAlready]

Thanks everyone for your input. I’m going to try the diet changes and see if that helps. He certainly does not seem uncomfortable in day-to-day life, but he is definitely bothered when he’s having trouble lifting that hind leg.

He was profoundly lame after his last farrier visit, and the farrier actually “fired” the horse as a client. He called me and said “the visit did not go well and I won’t trim him again.” Only the second time I have used this farrier for this horse (but have used him for other horses in the past), and the horse wasn’t quite right after the first trim either (at that time, I just thought he needed his stifles injected).

In the process of finding a new farrier now who will be a bit more understanding about my horse and whatever is going on with him. If you are curious about the farrier situation that led to all these questions, take a look at my “Farrier Rant” thread in the “Off Course” forum.

At this point, I’d say that I’m pretty sure he has either PSSM or Shivers, or both. Poor guy. Well, all you can do is all you can do. I’ll do my best for him.

Does anyone have a recommended feed that they have liked for their Shivers/PSSM horses? I was thinking of trying Equine Senior (he is not a senior - he is 7). Has anyone cut grain altogether? He’s certainly not a trim fellow, and I could definitely cut the grain completely with no loss of weight. Do you guys still allow your horses to be out on grass? He loves that so much that I would hate to take it away from him if I don’t have to.

[ERC]

You may think about checking into Laser therapy for Shivers. We have had great results.

[RiverBendPol]

You describe EPSM symptoms, too. I’ve had both ;-/ My Shivers horse had an AWFUL time backing up. Very tough for shoeing-my farrier figured out to hold the hind feet as low as he could and to give the horse plenty of rest periods. I think you’re better off without that farrier. You need one who likes his job and likes horses and is sympathetic to each one’s various quirks. I’d have fired him if he hadn’t fired you first!

Definitely get the horse on Vitamin E. Check your hay for Selenium and add it if necessary, NO carbos, NO sugar (Including grass-sorry). High fat diet-supplement with 3 cups a day. YES, get rid of the grain! Alfalfa pellets, soaked into mush, worked best for mine. They make Timothy pellets now but check the sugar content. Once you find the balance in his diet things should improve. Do go to ruralheritage.com for help. Dr. Valentine is wonderful.

[Abby_Kogler]

[QUOTE=ERC;6326066]
You may think about checking into Laser therapy for Shivers. We have had great results.[/QUOTE]

What kind? I have a RevitaVet and also a Centurion laser shower. Is this what you are referring to? Tell all! Thanks!

[JMarcyQuay]

My event horse has fairly severe shivers. Doesn’t effect him at all undersaddle, and hasn’t gotten worse over the last 6 years, but nothing (diet change, etc) changes it.

He has to be heavily sedated for his hind shoes to be done, but that does make him shoe-able. Putting studs in is an adventure in patience, but it’s possible.

Any touching of the hind legs produces an immediate muscle reaction, often with picking up, holding awkwardly, and trembling of the hind limb. He extends his tail every time he does this as well. Luckily, he’s gotten smart – when I need to wrap or boot his hind legs, he’ll hold the same-side front leg off the ground, so that his hind leg must stay put. It’ll shake, but won’t fly upwards.

Your hind-end lameness is a different issue. Never had that symptom with my horse, he’s unaffected undersaddle, has successfully competed through Prelim/Intermediate.

[goeslikestink]

shivers is a nerological decease

my daughters horse ollie was a grade A international show jumper in his youth
we had him from the age of 14- 28yrs so basically got another 14yrs from him of which he tuaght my daughter everything as a school master and jumping 7ft tracks

he did all the sytoms your surgesting early on when we got him, but you have to remember the type of life he lead you cant simply change it over night you have to think about him, and his mind and body and alter things over a course of time so allowing his body mind to down grade slowly

as he was a competition horse and on the international circuit meant he was used to staying in for long periods of time he also the father of many great horse still out there as he was a stallion when we got him which we had him cut at 14yrs old

during the years we had him it slowly got worse towards the end of his life whereby he couldnt get up from rolling around and dusting himself of as rolled in the mornings when he was put out and to see him struggle to get up and the time it took him we knew its the end as he just didnt know what leg to put where to stand

diet does help, as like i said we 14years extra with him, exercise to his way of life - that means work him to what he can cope with and dont over do it, if you see whn working him hes having a tremble and spasms get of and get him warm asap ie go get a blanket poly warm dont push him to walk off only walk when hes ready to - un tack him and give him room to breath

and will say this some horses like will try to go down when ridden or sleep when standing whilse waiting around at an event - dont let them get to a stage where there minds wonder keep them moving if you feel them going to go down
keep the horse moving - you can feel it when a horse is going to go down but and this a huge but

and its important that as this nerological decease the co ordination between brain and foot is broken — like there wires have got crossed somewhere and they wont know they are doing it they just go down regardless of you on top
they wouldnt mean it as they have no control over it
and when they go down there no stopping them and this is why horses like this are dangerous to ride -

and added to this any horse sold with shivers is a liability to the pulic and should be sold as cheap as cheap is regardless of what there previous career was and really should only go into home that can deal with this behaviour as some show sign of agression - as they dont understand whats happening to the and therefore deemed as a pita horse

horses with shivers my show signs of agrression which really isnt agression its more like a defensive manner as they cant understand as brain isnt working at
full power bit like humans with bio polar lol

so think - as you have to be 2 steps ahead of them in everything you do
have to be a confident handler and rider and an assertive one there no slacking when handling or riding a horse like this
your direct signal of command is vital - as this is what will help the horse a lot knowing if his brian off par - your tone of voice your commands helps brings back his state of mind-
feeding riding etc should be with a definate rountine to help the horse
regular vet and farrier trips and you might be lucky to have your horse around a bit longer
but do realise this nero logical decease- brain to foot and thats why they go fall over when farrier or you go to pick feet up

try to be patience and wait for the horse to get his brain in gear to pick u his legs - when you pick them out dont pull it out to the side or drop the feet as this isnt the way to do it and it will jar the horse and cause him pain

lift any foot by running yours hands dwon back of leg to inform the horse your there and going to pick his foot up lift foot up and support with other hand and knee if nesscary while you pick it out then replace the foot back on the floor dont just drop it or let go of it place it down

[FineAlready]

Thanks for all of your input.

I’ve ordered him some Triple Crown Low Starch feed to start with. He doesn’t get much grain at all anyway, but we can use this to get his supplements into him, etc. He’s also starting on vitamin E.

Meanwhile, I am also planning to get him tested for anaplasmosis. He had anaplasmosis last November and I never felt he came back from it right. I’m now wondering if he has some kind of lingering problem from that and/or we didn’t clear it all the way.

For what it’s worth, he does not have trouble backing up. He also works out of the lameness, but he has been lame after his last two farrier visits (especially this most recent one). He seems to be lame from the way the farrier his holding his hind legs up, rather than being lame from his hooves themselves. He is much more sound if I let him walk for 20 minutes before picking up the trot when I ride him. He is also much more sound if he is relaxed. When he gets hot and tense (which he tends to do sometimes), he is much more lame behind. It is like his butt just clenches up and he can’t move properly.

A lot of what goeslikestink describes does sound like him. He requires a very competent handler and can be a handful both on the ground and under saddle. With very competent, firm direction he is actually not very difficult to handle. But he does have meltdowns from time to time, and he requires a lot of guidance to get him through them. If you are not there to get a handle on the meltdown right away, he will just escalate and escalate and escalate. He is basically impossible to get flexion tests on because he just melts down. He was this way even before he started having problems with the farrier.

Anyway, thank you all for the thoughts. I’m still not 100 percent convinced that he does have PSSM and/or shivers (and neither are the vets), but I am going to proceed as though he does unless/until I figure something else out.

[candico]

Both my diagnosed EPSM horses back up like champs! So not a must have symptom of the condition. Only the gelding also has shivers as well. Must be relaxed to put back boots or wraps on and needs tranquilizer for any hind leg clipping. They can get muscle damage from fighting with a farrier and mine did not respond well at all to any aggression by anyone handling his hind legs - makes the shivers worse for sure! Also, when I tried to cut back on the oil/fat the shivers got so bad he was crippled - could barely manage walking around his stall. I think the muscles must get sore and tight when holding their hind leg up so much. He looks crippled behind when you first start up, unless you walk forever or put him on the eurociser yet that “lameness” seems to have not gotten any worse in the seven years he has been under saddle. Previcox does help shorten the warm up time and exercise prior to shoeing seems to be extremely helpful, even if it is just five to ten minutes jogging around the round pen. Hope that helps!

[FineAlready]

Oh yes, forgot to mention that I am also going to start adding canola oil!

Thanks for your input Candico. Mine also does not tolerate hind wraps (never really has). Interesting.

I do feel like he is actually injured from his farrier vists, especially the last one. I wasn’t there for it, so I don’t know exactly what happened, but it does sound like the farrier was frustrated.

For his next farrier visit (once I FIND a new farrier - sigh!), I’m planning to ride him first and then stay and hold him for the whole visit. I know him really well and will be able to tell the farrier if he is being a jerk or having a physical problem. I also figured out that he seems to prefer to have his left hind picked up in a very specific way. He wants you to NOT support it much at the very beginning and then support it a LOT as he eases down. He basically wants to be left alone to sort out the issue immediately, and then when he is ready, he wants to put a lot of weight down into a cradle of sorts with me pushing up against his pastern and holding the whole leg very solidly. I’m not sure if I’m describing that very well, but he seems to like a solid pressure at some point in the leg-picking-up process.

My poor little boy. He just has the worst luck of any horse I have ever known.