So, I’m still on the hunt for a 3’0” hunter packer and found one relatively nearby but priced at 65 (over budget). He’s lovely and experienced but he has been recently diagnosed with a very mild case of shivers. Apparently, his only symptom is stiffness when standing on concrete. He is 7 and seems perfect for me. My questions are: 1. Why is he still priced so high? And 2. Is he still worth purchasing?
He’s priced so high because most people don’t care about shivers. Especially a mild case and especially if they will be in a professional program.
I absolutely would not let a case of shivers stop me from buying a horse that was right in every other way. There are many top level performers who have shivers and aren’t slowed down by it.
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My guess is the price probably does reflect the diagnosis. The market is crazy right now, and experienced 3’ packers are going for six figures in many regions. So it is a “discount” of a sort.
Definitely get a vetting if you’re interested, but I agree that shivers can be very manageable. We had a 1.40 jumper with shivers, and it never affected him in the ring or under saddle. He’s 19 now and still packing his new owner around the 1.0-1.20m jumpers.
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We had a horse at my old barn (that I worked at - so I saw the horse ALL day long) with shivers. He was a lovely 3’ hunter and only showed that he had shivers when the farrier came, which I had to assist with. It was no big deal otherwise. He was perfectly sound and older, still jumping around after an extensive show career.
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I’ll be the first downer on here.
We bought a 5yo gelding with mild shivers. It was only apparent when you picked that foot up.
Within two years he had fairly significant atrophy on that side and was no longer sound.
We didn’t have our farm at the time so we gave him away as a trail horse and he was euthanized a couple years later when he started getting too uncomfortable.
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I think Shivers is thought to be progressive.
Personally I would pass on buying but maybe see about leasing?
It’s progressive more often than not. I euthanized a 7 yr old with it and would never buy another. No way.
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I think it is important to note that you and the others who have had significant issues with shivers had horses who were showing more than mild signs before 7 years of age. All of the literature I’ve read indicates that it’s more of an issue if symptoms present younger than 4. A 7 year old with mild symptoms is not the same.
Management is something to consider, as it is with many other thin that may be discussed during a vetting. And, like most things, it’s a personal preference. I’m also not overly concerned about mild kissing spines where another person may be.
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Our current horse has front limb shivers. Somehow never showed on the PPE. He requires patience when asking for a front leg and we give dermosedan when the farrier comes. It’s enough that it relaxes him and is a piece of cake for the farrier. He is coming 8. Have had him two years. Haven’t seen any progression and is 100% sound. Walks 3’ and moving up with his kid to the juniors soon. Hind shivers is a little more difficult as I understand. What he has hasn’t impacted his performance at all and he is incredibly scopey and athletic.
I would pass, while some think it’s no big deal it shows an issue within the horse I would be weary of, but everyone is open to different risks. Having lost a horse due to neuro issues, it’s just a big NO to me.
There’s a good podcast that goes into depth about shivers called “The Horse First” by Dr Audrey DeClue. Definitely listen through before making a decision.
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I would discuss a shivers horse with your veterinarian and let them guide you.
That is what I did. And I have owned my shivers horse for over 6 years and he has been a great addition to my family.
Let your veterinarian guide you; not people on the internet and not ‘pod casts’.
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When purchasing a known problem like this, I always mention resale if the horse actually doesn’t work for you. How difficult might that be?
Good advice, however I’ll add that in my case we did get the horse vetted. We also had a conversation about it with a second vet for another opinion.
They both felt that since the symptoms were so mild (mild shaking while lifting the affected hind when picking feet), that it likely wouldn’t progress that aggressively.
Turns out they were wrong.
Unfortunately it’s a disease that we still don’t know much about.
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I have never personally had a horse with shivers but a friend of mine did buy a horse knowing he had shivers but the vet she took him to assured her the case was so mild that if taken care of it wouldn’t progress. Sadly the horse has to be put down at the age of 7 so I would personally pass.
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I would never knowingly buy a horse with shivers after taking care of several - some were in BNT barns, and some were in less competition-geared barns.
It is progressive, and the management they need is difficult to find in a competition barn - they do best with 24/7 turnout, low NSC/starch feeds, four shoes, consistent work, high vitamin E, a considerate farrier…
For those thinking a 7 y/o showing mild symptoms is not a big deal… Wait a year. I think “showing no symptoms except when on concrete” is a red flag - I am betting that horse shows more symptoms than that, and no, I would not pay 65k for a horse with a difficult-to-manage neuromuscular disease.
In my experience the disease is always progressive. What is an unknown is how fast and when that disease progresses. I am surprised by the more cavalier responses - it has not been my case at all that a horse at seven is safe from deteriorating. It’s been the opposite.
Stresses – environmental, biological, trauma – all can bring out the symptoms and hasten the progression.
For many, the delineating factor leading up to their death is managing their soundness/comfort which sometimes means being PTS earlier, as several I have known could not be kept comfortable without shoes, but could not hold their feet up for the farrier – therefore they could not be shod. It really sucks when you have to make that decision, but it sucks more knowing if the horse could just be shod, he’d live a lot longer.
EDIT: And one other thing, after I thought about the last horse I took care of with this disease… sometimes shivers is a catch all phrase, and not actually the diagnostic… I do see from time to time it used to describe a horse with neurological issues – that run the gamut from PSSM, MFM to cervical arthritis. Shivers is one of those things that is clinically diagnosed by visual symptoms versus a biochemistry panel or muscle biopsy – difficulty backing up, holding a leg, etc… but, there are other things out there that cause these symptoms too. Just something to consider.
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