Shoeing a club foot & low heels

[laurendrew]

From some threads I’ve read, it seems like there are a bunch of people on COTH with substantial shoeing wisdom & experience, so I thought this would be a good place to seek opinions. I’ve been trying to learn as much as I can about shoeing and hoof behavior/anatomy, but this is above my tiny scope of knowledge.

My horse is a 10 year old OTTB. He came off the track with fairly decent feet (shape more than quality) and was shod by my farrier for about 8 months before going south for training. At the time he left, he was being shod on a 5 week cycle, which kept his club foot and overall balance in check pretty well. He was in SC for 2 months, and was shod by a different farrier. When he came back, his feet were a MESS. The shoes looked too small for his feet and were pressing on his frog, he was so foot sore, his heels were gone and his club foot had grown out of control.

My farrier at home has been working to correct this, but he’s now a few cycles in and it still looks bad to me. Here are photos of his most recent shoeing cycle, top photos were taken on August 4, a little after he was shod last, and bottom photos taken today, August 30.

Front feet: http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpeg

Back feet: http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/image_1.jpeg

Additionally, I do have x-rays of his hind feet (taken on July 15), and photos of his club foot from the front and a photo of underside of the pads on his hind feet if that’s at all helpful: http://s1123.photobucket.com/user/BeFashionMag/library/Mobile%20Uploads

He’s due for shoes soon. Should I trust my farrier and let him keep doing whatever, or should I request something different? I’ve read that wedges are standard for growing heel, but it doesn’t seem like it’s working? And then there’s his club foot as well… Ugh.

TLDR: struggling to find a shoeing technique that would help a horse with a club foot and low heels on the other 3 hooves. Suggestions/feedback greatly appreciated, thank you!

UPDATE 9/16 SHOEING page 3 (yes, I’m aware I need a new farrier, please don’t comment that unless you know of ones in the Boston area and can suggest one. Otherwise it’s not particularly helpful haha)

[BoyleHeightsKid]

Can we get a conformation shot of the whole horse?

IME wedges only further crush heels without some sort of frog support. Which it looks like he’s using a wedge pad no? I see in xrays the need to raise the plantar angle but I think a different approach is needed.

I would suggest pulling his shoes and booting if possible to allow for very frequent trims. IMO that is going to be the fastest way to get his feet straightened out.

eta: I’m also curious about the need for the trailers.

[laurendrew]

Thank you!

I don’t have any recent confo shots of him unfortunately, but I can grab one tonight!

That’s what I thought too, it seems counter-intuitive despite what I’ve read… He does have some frog support, on the hind feet at least which have this: http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8442.jpg

When he came back from training, his plantar angles were horrendous which is why I later had the x-rays done to check progress and to see if he internally still had bad angles. Also because he’s been battling with a hind end/stifle lameness and I was curious if that was contributing.

He has trailers because he has the tendency to interfere behind and nick himself. They’re much smaller than what he started off with when I first got him off the track as he now is stronger.

Would you go barefoot all around, or just behind? I’ve never seen a club foot be able to not go shod up front. I’m also wary of pulling his shoes since he is rehabbing from a nonspecific stifle injury (was ultrasounded, given estrone, then blistered, but after minimal improvement I’m having it x-rayed today to check for bone chips) and I’m afraid it’ll make it worse, but at the same time wondering if the wedges are making it worse since he never had a stifle issue before getting wedges on to correct the god-awful shoeing he got in SC.

[RodeoHunter]

I would suggest eliminating anything wedge related. My horse has low heels on the front and they became crushed after too many cycles of bar shoes and various types of wedges. He has been in regular shoes, no wedges and equithane for 3 cycles and there has been a significant improvement. The farrier has also been really aggressive with taking toe off.

Feet are not easy

[stb]

I have seen plenty of club feet do just fine without shoes. I also agree with getting rid of the wedges.

[laurendrew]

Thanks all! I had asked the last shoeing cycle if it was possible to not use wedges, and my farrier told me he wouldn’t know until he took the shoes off and reassessed. This time I’m going to be more adamant that he doesn’t get them, and see if I can up his cycle to have the toes trimmed more frequently.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

You can see the imbalance in the hind feet in the xrays. He’s high on inside left and right(more so left). Fix that imbalance and he very well may stop interfering.

I would pull his shoes so that you can have him trimmed every 4 weeks. Since his feet were so effed up I would see what your farrier can do, if things don’t seem to be improving you might have to look for someone else.

IMO, if he has stifle issues a foot imbalance is going exacerbate the issue. I don’t think removing his shoes is going to make it worse. And yes… it’s possible the wedges could be the cause. That’s what we need the confo pic for

[laurendrew]

Do you mean the x-rays shot from the front? I can kind of see it, I’ll have to check and compare to now how they look externally. Although this horse has been one huge puzzle and bad luck streak after another, at the very least I can say he’s making me a lot more knowledgeable about horse care and health than I would have been without him!

There is a barefoot trimmer that comes to my barn, so I gave her a call today to see if she has time next week to take a look once I have his (hind only to start) shoes pulled.

The stifle issue (as well as a tear in his supraspinous ligament) can all be traced back to his feet being botched. It’s so frustrating. They were great before he went down and now it’s just been an uphill battle The saying “no hoof, no horse” really is true ugh

[Dani]

If his feet looked good with the farrier before he left then let him work on your horse again. He’s got the history on him and knows what his feet should look like. It will take a long time for his feet to get back to where they were. Personally, I wouldn’t switch farriers.

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=Dani;8823799]
If his feet looked good with the farrier before he left then let him work on your horse again. He’s got the history on him and knows what his feet should look like. It will take a long time for his feet to get back to where they were. Personally, I wouldn’t switch farriers.[/QUOTE]

To my eye they looked good, but at that point I had even more limited knowledge and only knew enough to see when the club foot had grown out of balance. So who knows, maybe they weren’t great, but I know for sure what the farrier in SC did was awful.

I’m not so much looking to switch farriers as I am considering asking him to take a different approach. I unfortunately have to move barns in October as I moved and can’t afford rent + board where he is now, so I will have to find a new farrier regardless. Luckily my vet will stay the same, and he’s also been very involved with his feet.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

[QUOTE=laurendrew;8823778]
Do you mean the x-rays shot from the front? I can kind of see it, I’ll have to check and compare to now how they look externally. Although this horse has been one huge puzzle and bad luck streak after another, at the very least I can say he’s making me a lot more knowledgeable about horse care and health than I would have been without him!

There is a barefoot trimmer that comes to my barn, so I gave her a call today to see if she has time next week to take a look once I have his (hind only to start) shoes pulled.

The stifle issue (as well as a tear in his supraspinous ligament) can all be traced back to his feet being botched. It’s so frustrating. They were great before he went down and now it’s just been an uphill battle The saying “no hoof, no horse” really is true ugh[/QUOTE]I can also thank my OTTB for what I know now. If not for him and the challenges with different injuries and craptastic farriers, I wouldn’t be close to knowing what I do. After going through 4 or 5 farriers I finally found one that can manage him well and his feet are in the best shape they have ever been in the 12 years I’ve had him.

The xrays I’m referring to look like they were shot from the rear of the foot. It shows the imbalance from side to side of the coffin bone. He’s high in the inside in both, more so in the left hind. I see that quite a bit and that can cause inferring, soreness etc. I suspect without the trailers he will have a twist in his hind step as he is pushing off. The twist can be caused by the imbalance. I’m very leery of shoeing that changes their way of going. If not done correctly can cause soreness and injury.

IMO, I would not switch to the barefoot trimmer right now, have them take a look but that’s it. Stick with your guy for now. Pulling the hind shoes is a good start and will let him make frequent trims. Good luck and keep us updated.

[laurendrew]

I’m a little worried about pulling his hind shoes since there’s a lot of pavement at my barn and another horse who had his hinds pulled has cracked and chipped feet that look painful But I can’t see another way to do weekly trims to keep the toe back unless he’s not shod behind.

I also got his shoeing date wrong, he’s not scheduled until next week which will be his usual 5 week cycle. So I have a little time to think.

If you’d still like to see them, I attempted some conformation shots- sorry they’re at kind of awkward angles. Included his original CANTER listing photo as well:
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_8442.jpg
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/image_4.jpeg
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l554/BeFashionMag/Mobile%20Uploads/image_5.jpeg

Thank you so much for your input!

[JB]

Assuming the pavement (concrete or asphalt? just curious) is around the barn, on which they walk back and forth to and from turnout and riding, there’s no reason that alone should cause chipping and cracking. It’s not nearly enough time, it’s not enough concussion.

[crimsonsky]

given what i’ve seen in the photos you’ve posted, i’d absolutely pull the shoes and start doing mini-trims between your farrier’s scheduled visits. have him/her show you how to rasp the toe and heel to help keep things going in the right direction. it’s amazing what can be done when they’re barefoot and you’re on top of it.

examples of my OTTB mare’s feet after pulling shoes (we tried the shoes with pads and wedges and pour-ins, etc etc for almost 2 years and the previous owner did the same before me as well):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9b2vaOIVxYwOElnVFRyOGRQLW8
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9b2vaOIVxYwaVJvbnVIMWpEU0E

[Palm_Beach]

OP you need a better farrier. And not a “barefoot” trimmer. A farrier should be able to do it all - and the trim is the foundation. I’ve had some pretty ugly footed tbs come in and my farrier has never put something like the contraption you have on your horse’s feet. He would rather put a shoe on a bad foot to support it and protect it, I’d rather pull shoes and put cavallo boots on. But either way, we don’t get all fancy with pads and clips and wedges - he trims right, I feed good, he trims good again, horse improves. You just got a bad shoe job and if you have to tell your farrier how to shoe your horse you need a new farrier. Bad blacksmithing seems to be an epidemic.

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8827045]
OP you need a better farrier. And not a “barefoot” trimmer. A farrier should be able to do it all - and the trim is the foundation. I’ve had some pretty ugly footed tbs come in and my farrier has never put something like the contraption you have on your horse’s feet. He would rather put a shoe on a bad foot to support it and protect it, I’d rather pull shoes and put cavallo boots on. But either way, we don’t get all fancy with pads and clips and wedges - he trims right, I feed good, he trims good again, horse improves. You just got a bad shoe job and if you have to tell your farrier how to shoe your horse you need a new farrier. Bad blacksmithing seems to be an epidemic.[/QUOTE]

If you had seen what his feet looked like when he came back from Aiken, what they look like now is a HUGE improvement. My vet is also working closely to monitor his feet, and has been hoof-testing them periodically. My guy is no longer foot sore, so while I don’t think the current set-up is going to work to fix his feet long-term, it has definitely improved his overall way of going and health.

There aren’t a lot of farriers in the area my horse is boarded at now, so I don’t have too many options. He is getting moved in October and I will need to find a new farrier regardless at that point.

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=JB;8826743]
Assuming the pavement (concrete or asphalt? just curious) is around the barn, on which they walk back and forth to and from turnout and riding, there’s no reason that alone should cause chipping and cracking. It’s not nearly enough time, it’s not enough concussion.[/QUOTE]

Asphalt, I believe. The other gelding is a behemoth warmblood, so he understandably is putting more pressure on his hooves. I did get Farriers’ Fix Hoof Oil and have been putting it on my guy’s soles in preparation for pulling his shoes, so I’m hoping that will help ease the transition!

[laurendrew]

[QUOTE=crimsonsky;8826863]
given what i’ve seen in the photos you’ve posted, i’d absolutely pull the shoes and start doing mini-trims between your farrier’s scheduled visits. have him/her show you how to rasp the toe and heel to help keep things going in the right direction. it’s amazing what can be done when they’re barefoot and you’re on top of it.

examples of my OTTB mare’s feet after pulling shoes (we tried the shoes with pads and wedges and pour-ins, etc etc for almost 2 years and the previous owner did the same before me as well):
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9b2vaOIVxYwOElnVFRyOGRQLW8
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9b2vaOIVxYwaVJvbnVIMWpEU0E[/QUOTE]

I’d be slightly terrified of doing it myself, but I’ll ask him haha. He does come out pretty often so would probably be able to do it frequently enough anyways.

And yikes, those are some low hooves!! Good job with them, that’s tough

[JB]

@laurendrew;8827126

Asphalt, I believe. The other gelding is a behemoth warmblood, so he understandably is putting more pressure on his hooves.

Asphalt is black and softer, concrete is light and harder. But even so, even a minute of walking on either one, even a couple times a day, is not enough to cause hoof problems. So I would not worry about that at all.

[tazycat]

Just walking across asphalt isn’t going to cause an issue with hoofs. My horses stand on concrete all day. Their run in shed is concrete flooring with half rubber mats, half just concrete.

Hoofs do chip some but nothing horrible.

Your horses toes are long and so are the heels.