Shoeing Hind Feet to Help Hocks

[Pico_Banana]

My 23 y.o. dressage schoolmaster gelding has hock arthritis - we are treating with steroid injections. I know he twists his hocks, causing his hind feet (esp his LH) to wear unevenly. My vet suggested that hind shoes could help the hocks.

I’m generally happy to do whatever helps, but I turn him out with my other two horses and he does have kicking tendencies. He’s never made contact, but turning around and throwing a double-barreled kick is his go to maneuver. Group turnout is kinda my only option to keep the three of them happy, so I don’t really want to put him in metal shoes. I therefore asked my farrier about non-metal options.

Unfortunately, my farrier is of the opinion that non-metal shoes will not help him. She is not a huge proponent of composite shoes in general, so I take that with some skepticism. But in general she’s great and I have no intentions of looking for a different farrier.

So, with those guidelines - thoughts on what I can do? Specific composites I could recommend? Use Hoof Armor to try to prevent wear? Or is it a fallacy that shoes will even help?

I’m open to all thoughts and advice. Just trying to find the right balance here.

[luvmyhackney]

Way back when I had a horse shod behind with a wedge that the front part was cut off of so it lifted his heel. He had awful arthritis in his hocks and it definitely helped. If his toes got long his hocks bothered him more.

I would try boots with a wedge or a composite glue before I nailed a shoe on. They have gotten to be excellent options and just a great as a metal shoe.

I’d add this to whatever composite shoe you decided on or just use boots.
https://easycareinc.com/EasyShoe/EasyShoe-Versa-Grip-Wedge.asp

[ThreeWishes]

Years ago I had a horse who had iffy hocks that twisted and caused him pain. He was shod behind with a special forged trailer to reduce the twist. He was just a pasture pet. It improved him very much. Sorry I have no idea how you would achieve that with boots or composites.

[Djones]

This is a very horse specific situation. I will only suggest that IME boots are too grippy, so the wringing or twisting that cannot go out on the ground with some hoof shifting on bare or shod feet will result in that twist going up the leg into the hocks or stifle.

[IndysMom]

I have no idea how to deal with the kicking. However, my 20yo does the twisting thing. Shoeing him with bar shoes behind made an amazing difference. Like-walking away from the farrier difference! His shoes are handmade by the farrier. Not cheap, but effective.

They were recommended by the vet.

[Demerara_Stables]

EasyCare Versas are the composites my horse is in. Hers are nail ons, but they also come in glue on versions. You can, in fact, glue them on yourself (there’s a thread about it here somewhere), after your farrier trims your horse. You need to have the correct size and sometimes you need to file or grind down the shoe so the break over is correct. The Versas are softer than a hoof unless the hoof is super soft from wet conditions (I reached out to the founder of Easy Care to confirm this, as I also have group turnout). They will be no more harmful on a horse that kicks than a bare foot, and maybe would even provide some cushion!

If you really can’t get your farrier to nail or glue them on, you could ask her if she can at least confirm fit and break over are correct after you glue them on yourself.

Good luck, I think the composites are a god send for many reasons, and I hope they work out for you!

[Pico_Banana]

Thanks! Which version of the Versa do you use? And do you nail or glue them on?

My farrier said she tried composite shoes on a horse that did a lot of driving on a road and that they shifted around and damaged hoof wall. Have you seen any damage? What kind of turnout is your horse in? Mine is on grass during the day, his in/out is stone dust and 3/8 minus, and he gets ridden on sand with fiber.

[Demerara_Stables]

The versa grip: https://easycareinc.com/easyshoe/EasyShoe-Versa-Grip.asp I forgot this one has metal inside, this may or may not change the hardness of the shoe overall, it’s worth reaching out to Garrett, the founder of the company to get more info.

I do not ride on the road at all. My horse is turned out 24/7 on very hard dirt in the summer (my farrier commented my horses have the hardest feet he has ever seen in the summer) and very wet mud with a lot of clay in the winter. Admittedly, both the nail on and glue on versions have come off over the winter. My mud is very thick and sucks off pretty much everything.

My older mare is the one that wears these, she gets worked 3 to 4 days a week in a deep-ish sand arena interspersed with days on the trail where the footing is gravel or base rock. She is pretty chill in the field as she’s 21 but does get the zoomies when everyone else does. I had a client horse with the glue on versas that ran around a lot and she kept them on unless the mud was deep.

I have seen no hoof damage from the nail on or glue on versions. Also wanted to note that this horse used to be barefoot on all four until she had a check ligament injury, my farrier suggested trying the versas to offer more stabilization as she healed. She also has pretty significant side bone and I think that the composites helped her with stabilization as the ligament healed and the softness of them helped with forces of concussion and stabilization to keep her more comfortable with her sidebone.

[fivestrideline]

@Pico_Banana

that they shifted around and damaged hoof wall

Properly applied and cured, they won’t shift, IME. In fact they can’t - any twisting that manages to move the shoe vs the hoof will break the glue seal and the shoe comes off. Nails can be torqued and stretched and the shoe twisted around on the foot - I’ve seen properly placed nails that have been pulled all the way through the white line and into the sole without losing the shoe. Glue on shoes shifting before the glue sets is very possible, but that’s an application error.

Glue will not damage a hoof wall, many are used to rebuild it, but a very compromised hoof wall might not tolerate “peeling” the cuffs off to remove the shoe and reuse it. Sometimes if a horse rips the shoe off it can take a bit of the outer layer of hoof wall with it, but I find this only happens to poor quality hoof and is usually less damage than a nail shoe taking the whole chunk off. You can glue over a bit of outer layer horn damage, you can’t do anything when the whole wall is gone.

Sometime the sanding that a hoof needs to let the glue bond the shoe in place looks a little aggressive to new users - I find that I don’t need to sand that much to get a great hold, just rough up the wall a bit and get all the dirt and periople out from under the glue areas. It’s just not as pretty as the pro job.

@Pico_Banana

Have you seen any damage? What kind of turnout is your horse in?

No damage on mine, especially compared to the 37 nail holes due to the losing and resetting shoes we used to do.

Mine live out 24/7, hard dirt, grass, mud (deep, sucking mud), etc. Retention issues have invariably been due to application errors - the glue I use doesn’t like heat so I keep it in the barn fridge until I go to use it. If I’m going to lose a shoe, it’s in the mud because it shoved the bell boots up the leg and the horse interfered - the right shape and size can reduce this, as well as grinding a lip on the heels.

Cuff style shoes are very forgiving on fit, and the full composites are definitely softer than a mustang hoof. And usually no sharp edges. They do make some with metal cores or metal ground contact (bonded to composite hoof side pieces and cuffs) for extra stability, but it really depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

Signed, the person who started the glue on shoe thread and now shoes her own with Versa Grips (and might try some other models soon). Sorry for the novel

[Demerara_Stables]

@fivestrideline

Signed, the person who started the glue on shoe thread and now shoes her own with Versa Grips (and might try some other models soon). Sorry for the novel

Glad you chimed in!

[Pico_Banana]

@fivestrideline

Cuff style shoes are very forgiving on fit, and the full composites are definitely softer than a mustang hoof. And usually no sharp edges. They do make some with metal cores or metal ground contact (bonded to composite hoof side pieces and cuffs) for extra stability, but it really depends on what you’re trying to accomplish.

I appreciate the novel! I am definitely a “the more info, the better” kind of person.

I think I’ll call EasyShoe and see what they think. I’m willing to push my farrier on this.

I am not willing to do the shoes myself . . . especially because I’m pretty sure my farrier would fire me and on the whole, she’s really top notch.

[fivestrideline]

Totally understandable!

To be fair - plenty of full composites, as well as internal half-core composites, can be nailed. This may be a compromise that your farrier will work with while also not nailing brass knuckles on your kicker. EasyCare is super responsive and helpful, they should be able to guide you. Likely you’ll have to buy the shoes and pay your farrier to apply, but if it helps…

FWIW I notice a huge improvement with hinds on. My guys are bare behind right now because I’ve been lazy and just puttering anyway, but hinds go on as soon as I’m actually riding for progress.

[RedHorses]

If your investigating nail on composit shoes, ask about what nails to use. Some work better with copper nails.

[SonnysMom]

My farrier did a glue on composite on my horse’s front feet. Due to a prior farrier and the time of year there wasn’t much to nail into. They were blue and had a thin metal core. He wore through to the core in about 4.5 weeks. But he had a long walk to/from his field on gravel. Gravel to the ring, the outdoor riding ring is screenings. But my farrier is very good with glue-ons, both cuffed and uncuffed. The 5 weeks they were on gave enough hoof growth to go to nail ons. If I had to use them again I would make sure he was led on the grass next to the driveway for most of trip to the field. I would also only ride in either the indoor or the big ring with the sand/felt footing.

[Demerara_Stables]

@SonnysMom

My farrier did a glue on composite on my horse’s front feet. Due to a prior farrier and the time of year there wasn’t much to nail into. They were blue and had a thin metal core. He wore through to the core in about 4.5 weeks. But he had a long walk to/from his field on gravel. Gravel to the ring, the outdoor riding ring is screenings. But my farrier is very good with glue-ons, both cuffed and uncuffed. The 5 weeks they were on gave enough hoof growth to go to nail ons. If I had to use them again I would make sure he was led on the grass next to the driveway for most of trip to the field. I would also only ride in either the indoor or the big ring with the sand/felt footing.

I’m not sure what brand these are, but my mare is on month 4 of her EasyCare Versas. YMMV

[SonnysMom]

I didn’t ever get the brand name. They did what I needed done. I think the excessive wear was due to lots of gravel and screens ring. We are in a much better spot than 12 months ago even with the drought

[Peggy]

My horse wore Eponas for about a year. They are blue but I don’t think they have a metal core, so probably not what you had. The only time they really wore was during the winter rains when we spent a LOT of time walking on the asphalt road. The farrier switched to an Epona shoe that had little carbide tips in it.

So you might be fine if you avoid abrasive surfaces.

[kaya842]

Eponas have a metal core (well some do at least). IME the Eponas aren’t quite as thick as the Versas but both stood up well to road riding with small studs for traction for my horse (multiple resets each).