Shoeing/trimming for locking stifles?

[NEeventer]

Looking for any info/experiences on helping a horse with locking stifles with a shoeing/trimming approach. Horse mostly locks going from halt to walk, so I’m not even sure that is the scenario where farrier work can assist?

He’s a 5 y/o OTTB currently in 4 regular shoes, no pads/wedges. Not opposed to removing hind shoes (mostly on because of the gravel and rocks in his field). I think I’ll also ask my vet for radiographs of the hind feet to see if I’m dealing with NPA. A stifle strengthening plan and turnout on a hill has not helped the locking, so looking into next steps.

[JB]

I suspect there’s NPA here, that coronet band is really steep. It’s hard to tell whether the convex toe profile is form the NPA, or excessive dubbing by the farrier, but I suspect a bit of both. The coronet band angle is a big tell-tale, and I think it’s 100% worth an xray or 2

How long has this farrier been trimming him? Any chance you have older pics showing anything about this foot?

[Bonnie2]

From this single photo, it definitely looks like his angles could be improved. My personal inclination would be to pull the hinds and see where he wants his feet.

[NEeventer]

Thanks. Yeah, I agree we likely have NPA. This farrier has been doing him since I bought him almost two years ago. I don’t have the exact same shot, but adding one from him about a month off the track, July 2022.

[JB]

unfortunately it’s not possible to tell anything from that pic, due to both the angle of the pic, and the stance

[sascha]

@JB

unfortunately it’s not possible to tell anything from that pic, due to both the angle of the pic, and the stance

I dunno, in the old picture in the most recent post, the growth lines look reasonably straight. The picture in @NEeventer’s original post gives me a case of the bends just looking at the warped growth lines.

[stb]

I would be shocked if this isn’t NPA. That’s not helping your stifles at all. I would definitely want films but I would also personally be looking for a new farrier.

[candyappy]

Locking stifles isn’t caused by trimming/ shoeing issues ???

[JB]

@candyappy

Locking stifles isn’t caused by trimming/ shoeing issues ???

It can be the catalyst for the horse already prone to it

Put long toes on a LS-prone horse, and they like to lock
NPA does sort of the same thing - drops the heels.

[Posting_Trot]

I’d agree that the first (most recent) picture in the opening post made me gasp because of the bull-nosing, almost always associated with NPA.

The older picture, from when the horse was just off the track, looked to have more “natural” angles (no bull-nosing), although the photo was taken from an odd perspective.

Is the original poster from the NorthEast? Where? I’m just curious about who the current farrier might be.

[fivestrideline]

@JB

@candyappy

Locking stifles isn’t caused by trimming/ shoeing issues ???

It can be the catalyst for the horse already prone to it

Put long toes on a LS-prone horse, and they like to lock
NPA does sort of the same thing - drops the heels.

can confirm, from experience! Crappy trimming/shoeing can certainly cause stifle issues, and can cause locking/slipping/catching in a horse prone to it.

[candyappy]

@fivestrideline

a horse prone to it.

Right. They have to have the conformation flaws that cause it in the first place and incorrect trimming/ shoeing can help it along. Better trimming / shoeing won’t cure it.

We had a Shetland who had 1 stifle that would lock up on occasion. Just on one side though and not terribly often.

[fivestrideline]

@candyappy

Better trimming / shoeing won’t cure it.

Better trimming and shoeing CAN make the symptoms disappear though. It won’t make the predisposition go away, but a bad farrier 100% can trigger locking in a horse that wasn’t doing it previously.

Therefore, better trimming and shoeing can definitely resolve the problem.

[candyappy]

@fivestrideline

Therefore, better trimming and shoeing can definitely resolve the problem.

That is good to know for those who have a horse that suffers with it.

[NEeventer]

I’m in Vermont. I only have one farrier option, and I don’t think he’s worked on a locking stifle horse before. I’m also pretty far from a sporthorse vet, so I might bite the bullet and take him 3+hours to Tufts to get a full eval, since we’re going on 18 months without much progress. I think my farrier will be amenable to changing the trim/shoes, but he’ll need very specific directions. Adding another photo from right off the track.

I realize that I’ll probably need to consider an additional intervention for the stifles specifically, but I’d like to get his feet sorted at the same time as I feel like we’re in a bit of a rinse and repeat cycle on soreness.

[fivestrideline]

@NEeventer

I realize that I’ll probably need to consider an additional intervention for the stifles specifically, but I’d like to get his feet sorted at the same time as I feel like we’re in a bit of a rinse and repeat cycle on soreness.

You’ll likely need to address both at the same time - sore stifles can make them stand wonky and distort their feet, and distorted feet stress the stifles. It’s a bad positive feedback loop

To me it looks like he had some NPA (or heading that way) already, with some bullnosing. I’m not surprised he’s sore with the current state of his feet either.

I feel for you. I’d say you need a new farrier - stifle issues or not those are not good feet - but I 100% understand not having options. Getting some balance X-rays and talking it over with your farrier can be a good place to start - some farriers are better at visualizing the internal structures than others. That said, if the vet or farrier tells you that NPA in the hinds isn’t an issue, you need a second opinion ASAP. BTDT wish I’d known more and been able to save my horse a lot of soreness.

[NEeventer]

Thanks. Yeah, this all makes sense. Literally no one in the last 18 months has mentioned his feet to me as potentially correlated with or even causing locking stifles, so I’m trying to learn and advocate as I go.

[fivestrideline]

Ugh welcome to the world of owner-driven hoof care! No hoof no horse as they say, and just like people, if their feet hurt it travels up and can cause all sorts of issues.

Good luck with him!

[TWH_Girl]

Awww poor bud! I agree with the 3 hour trip for evaluation and hoof X-rays and prescription for proper hind shoeing. How often does your horse catch when being ridden and how does he handle it? Does it upset him and make him edgy and spooky?
I’m sure vet will be able to appropriately address and give you some answers which usually includes some injections to address soreness of the joint- steroids/ha, Prostride, etc. and then a program for strengthening and riding along with the shoeing changes that may be needed. If there are any other areas of his body sore from compensating, his evaluation will reveal that as well. May as well get as much done as you can since you are a few hours away. I have a similar situation and it’s been frustrating but my horse appears to have a compensatory issue other than just the catching.

[Feathered_Feet]

@NEeventer

I only have one farrier option, and I don’t think he’s worked on a locking stifle horse before.

@NEeventer

I think my farrier will be amenable to changing the trim/shoes, but he’ll need very specific directions. Adding another photo from right off the track.

Oh man, welcome to the world of do-it-yourself hoof education, as many, many of us are in the same boat (even those of us with a dozen or more local farriers to choose from - many of them are really not good). Let me save you years of struggle and tell you to just start reading and learning everything you can right now. Join the facebook pages, buy the books, scour the websites. Spend the money on a (reputable) course or 5, preferably from multiple people. Do not assume your farrier is going to know what to do (clearly he doesn’t), though you can be grateful he might be interested in collaborating with you and your vet’s direction.

Ask your trimmer to help you learn how to trim - even if he isn’t doing it right, presumably he can show you how to work with the tools so that you can apply what you learn as you go. It’s going to be awkward and hard at first but eventually it will start to click if you keep muddling through. Nobody will care about your horse as much as you so you might as well jump in head first. As the great philosopher Sebastian said “if you want something done, you’ve got to do it yourself.”

Start your journey now so you don’t look back 5 years from now wishing you had started 5 years ago.

Good luck!