Shoes or No Shoes? The never-ending debate of when to shoe your horse

[Alter_Walter]

Backstory:
Horse has been off the track since January. Horse has had no shoes since race plates pulled in January. Started out very sore but has worked through the soreness. Sound.

Trainer & I are starting to get more serious about what is done with horse. We have the discussion that she feels most comfortable if ALL horses are in shoes when consistently jumping 2’6 or higher.

Both cost and necessity are reasons why I have a problem with that.

What are other’s thoughts about WHEN to shoe your horse? Horse has been sound and doesn’t show any problems over the small things currently being done.

Is she right that the horse needs “support” from the shoes, even if staying sound with no issues?

I feel that’s a very ‘old school’ way to think of things, saying that to jump 2’6 consistently, my horse needs to be in shoes.

At $120/5 weeks for fronts and $210 for 4, I’m thinking that will tap me out rather quickly.

Thoughts?

[CindyCRNA]

My TB who events always has shoes. I know it happens but 100% of the people I know who jump shoe at least the fronts. Consider front shoes.

[NancyM]

Well I jump my TB mare around in the 3’6" division, and last fall in the 3 Bar class up to 4’10" without shoes, no problems. So no, I do not agree with your coach’s opinion. A healthy and strong hoof does not need “support” to land from jumps in a situation with good footing. If you start having problems with traction, slipping on turns at speed etc, shoes can help with that. 2’6" does not qualify as much of a jump, IMO.

I live in a semi arid region, and my horses have full turn out year round. Hooves are so hard and tough that they are difficult to trim. Horses need shoes if they have soft feet, bad feet, previous injuries to feet that make them overly sensitive, or don’t grow well, or wear too much or unevenly. If you are showing somewhere that you do not KNOW that the footing is always good, eg. rocks in the warm up area, then shoes are a good idea. If you are going to be showing on grass, over BIGGER jumps (3’6" +) and may need to use studs for traction, tapped shoes are helpful, or grass shoes (rims).

A few years ago, I sold a nice half TB gelding to a BNT. He was a five year old, had never needed shoes. Had shown a bit, locally, and done some trail rides barefoot, no problems, great feet. The first thing they did with him was shoe him all round!!! ROTFLMAO!!! The shoes were needed so that he looked like the rest of the horses in the barn I think, to stand in a stall, be ridden in a soft indoor arena, and be led out to a bark mulch paddock!!! Some people like to throw excess money away, I think. Some coaches just like to have THAT MUCH control over their clients. Your coach’s “comfort” is not the reason for you to put shoes on your horse.

Stand by your guns about what your horse needs or does not need, in your opinion. If you change your opinion at a later date, shoes can be applied if YOU want to. Don’t let a coach make ALL your decisions for you. It’s your horse, you make your own decisions, listening to input from others, your coach, your farrier, your vet. But YOUR decisions. Right or wrong.

[Mia_Sorella]

I’m of the mindset that the horse will tell you when it needs shoes. And so will a good farrier–maybe ask what your farrier thinks?

Currently, my OTTB mare regularly jumps 2’6" without shoes. That being said, I don’t jump her when the ground is hard or too wet/soft, and I am anal about riding regularly and thoughtfully to maintain fitness. She doesn’t get left for a week and then pounded over jumps for an hour (not saying you would do this of course, just that some people do and then are ??? when they have a sore horse).

I was riding with a trainer that had a similar mindset. When I asked my farrier, he said “why bother?”. “Your horse is sound and shows good growth with minimal wear between trims. If you’re having soundness issues or you plan on really upping her work load, then we’ll talk about shoes.” <–that was good enough for me.

[Jungle_Monkey]

I only put shoes on my horse because we have to jump on grass and he absolutely needed to be corked. I wish I never had to do it.

[Alter_Walter]

[QUOTE=NancyM;8265951]
Well I jump my TB mare around in the 3’6" division, and last fall in the 3 Bar class up to 4’10" without shoes, no problems. So no, I do not agree with your coach’s opinion. A healthy and strong hoof does not need “support” to land from jumps in a situation with good footing. If you start having problems with traction, slipping on turns at speed etc, shoes can help with that. 2’6" does not qualify as much of a jump, IMO.

I live in a semi arid region, and my horses have full turn out year round. Hooves are so hard and tough that they are difficult to trim. Horses need shoes if they have soft feet, bad feet, previous injuries to feet that make them overly sensitive, or don’t grow well, or wear too much or unevenly. If you are showing somewhere that you do not KNOW that the footing is always good, eg. rocks in the warm up area, then shoes are a good idea. If you are going to be showing on grass, over BIGGER jumps (3’6" +) and may need to use studs for traction, tapped shoes are helpful, or grass shoes (rims).

A few years ago, I sold a nice half TB gelding to a BNT. He was a five year old, had never needed shoes. Had shown a bit, locally, and done some trail rides barefoot, no problems, great feet. The first thing they did with him was shoe him all round!!! ROTFLMAO!!! The shoes were needed so that he looked like the rest of the horses in the barn I think, to stand in a stall, be ridden in a soft indoor arena, and be led out to a bark mulch paddock!!! Some people like to throw excess money away, I think. Some coaches just like to have THAT MUCH control over their clients. Your coach’s “comfort” is not the reason for you to put shoes on your horse.

Stand by your guns about what your horse needs or does not need, in your opinion. If you change your opinion at a later date, shoes can be applied if YOU want to. Don’t let a coach make ALL your decisions for you. It’s your horse, you make your own decisions, listening to input from others, your coach, your farrier, your vet. But YOUR decisions. Right or wrong.[/QUOTE]

I’m trying really hard to brush off the conversation I had with her as no big deal. The horse was sore/sensitive when the race plates were pulled. As to be expected since the horse was shod since it was 2. The barn arena is grass. We’ve ridden in & jumped in it since the horse was restarted and we’ve NEVER slipped. Never taken a foul step. I think she just brought it up because we were talking about feet and I was discussing how the horse’s feet have made a remarkable change for the better since the transition from plates to barefoot started. Then she went into asking if I’d thought about shoes, and offered her advice about shoeing when consistently going over 2’6. The horse hasn’t even seen 2’6 once, let alone on a consistent basis, yet! Cross rails and barely 2 footers for us, in no big hurry to move up fast.

Anyhow, I’m glad there are others. I know there are others. The last horse I owned was barefoot the entire duration of ownership. We averaged 2’3 but went up to 2’9. This was before trainer. Horse was always sound as a bell. Just never grasped WHY they need shoes at that height, if not showing any physical ailment to back it up.

I want to keep the horse barefoot as long as I can, not because I want to be cheap (if horse needed them, they’d be on; though I don’t want to slap them on because the trainer says to…that’s a LOT of extra money), but more to preserve the health of the feet. They appeared SO unhealthy when in race plates, that I can’t fathom throwing unnecessary shoes and undoing all the healing that’s just started to take place.

Why do trainers feel like they have to put shoes on a horse based on the height they’re jumping? I know of another trainer who puts all horses over 5 into fronts, and backs if they’re in a big work program. Why? Why put a height or age on it? Why isn’t it about the horse?

[Simkie]

I’ve owned a number of horses that went perfectly sound barefoot, but wow did they ever improve in how they moved and carried themselves shod all the way around. I now shoe nearly everything all the way around when stepping up the work to riding 4-5-6 ish days a week.

There’s sure nothing wrong with leaving a sound horse barefoot in work, but you may be surprised at the change when shod. There is certainly no one answer

[lesson_junkie]

My experience has been exactly like Simkie’s. Horse traveled fine barefoot, never acted uncomfortable, hoof looked fine. I had the horse shod when his work load increased, and everything got easier for him-especially getting distances.

When I start asking the horse to step up and answer the question I ask, I think he needs all the tools I can give him.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I shoe horses jumping. Here in the northeast, I would never trail ride a horse without shoes, and TBs I put pads on for trails. If eventing, I put in studs. In winter, borium for ice.

My reasoning is I cannot afford the vet fees for a horse who’s leg slips out from under him and he tears ligaments doing a split, or a strain from having to hold himself from slipping jumping. I am not interested in corns or abcesses from a stone bruise. If I am riding the horse it isn’t fair to him to handle trying to balance me and stepping on rocks or grass or slipping on anything.

Just my feelings.

[Pocket_Pony]

It all depends on the horse, of course. I hate to go along with stereotypes, but if your TB has crappy TB feet, then you may end up putting shoes on. Having said that, I do think it is important to pull the racing plates, give the feet some time off to recover, and give the horse plenty of movement. I’d pull my TB’s shoes in the winter to give his feet some time off when the ground was softer (when I lived in CA and that’s when we got rain), but come springtime and dry weather, he’d need shoes again for sure (hard, rocky ground). If you’re working exclusively in grass, then your horse may be able to go a good while without shoes. If you are going to go out showing or be where the ground is harder, then you may need to put shoes on.

I could ride my TB without shoes and he wasn’t “lame” per se, but when I put shoes on him he was so much more comfortable. So things to look for are mincy steps, really. Does he hesitate moving forward, take short strides, pick and choose where to walk? Those would be signs that shoes may be in order. But I do think it is important to have time spent without shoes on.

My mustang, well, we scramble over rocks, ride over gravel, and do everything barefoot. He almost never has a chip or crack, and has great feet over all. But they are all different, so watch your horse, see if/when there are any minced steps, and shoe or boot accordingly.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=Alter Walter;8265890]
Backstory:
Horse has been off the track since January. Horse has had no shoes since race plates pulled in January. Started out very sore but has worked through the soreness. Sound.

Trainer & I are starting to get more serious about what is done with horse. We have the discussion that she feels most comfortable if ALL horses are in shoes when consistently jumping 2’6 or higher.

Both cost and necessity are reasons why I have a problem with that.

What are other’s thoughts about WHEN to shoe your horse? Horse has been sound and doesn’t show any problems over the small things currently being done.

Is she right that the horse needs “support” from the shoes, even if staying sound with no issues?

I feel that’s a very ‘old school’ way to think of things, saying that to jump 2’6 consistently, my horse needs to be in shoes.

At $120/5 weeks for fronts and $210 for 4, I’m thinking that will tap me out rather quickly.

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

How much jumping? Once a week, or 4 days a week? On poofy arena footing, or hard stony outside ground? How many fences per lesson? 8-20, or 30-50? Is he comfortable barefoot in your flat work? Do you have ambitions to be doing a higher level by early Fall?

A very good AA-circuit sporthorse vet once told me that “The horse is not making a real physical jumping effort, just an expanded canter stride, until the fences exceed three feet.” Meaning, there is no concussion or bodily strain in jumping smaller fences. Which is food for thought.

I have also read studies that show a shod horse’s resting heart rate is 10 BPM higher than a barefoot horse; thought to be the absence of frog pressure helping to return blood upward. This denotes a certain amount of physiological stress inherent in living shod–not to mention financial stress.

Both of these considerations would make me hesitate to shoe, AS LONG AS the horse is comfortable in his work without shoes jumping at that height. What you have to weigh is the number of jumping efforts (or actual time spent) per week vs. the time he spends standing around, grazing, u/s on the flat, etc.

There is no one-size-fits-all rule; every horse is different and I hope keeping him bare for now is not a deal-breaker for your trainer.

[merrygoround]

Having had a horse that was barefoot for 95% of their life, Eventing and dressage, I’d say it’s up to the horse.

I know of a horse that did several Prelim, long format three days, barefoot. I do believe he hunted too.

Not a barefoot believer, but it sure does avoid headaches.

[Lady_Eboshi]

They make great boots nowadays, too–I ride my guys in some very rough country in EasyBoot Gloves, alternating between ledge, the equivalent of trap-rock and sticky mud holes. Well-fitted, they NEVER come off unless a tired horse grabs himself, and even if that happens it means the inconvenience of dismounting to stuff the boot back on vs. a bruise and open wound that may take months. I would not hesitate to try them if he seems to need a little more protection from the ground than totally bare affords, but less support than shoes.

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=Alter Walter;8265890]
Backstory:
Horse has been off the track since January. Horse has had no shoes since race plates pulled in January. Started out very sore but has worked through the soreness. Sound.

Trainer & I are starting to get more serious about what is done with horse. We have the discussion that she feels most comfortable if ALL horses are in shoes when consistently jumping 2’6 or higher.

Both cost and necessity are reasons why I have a problem with that.

Two completely separate issues.

What are other’s thoughts about WHEN to shoe your horse? Horse has been sound and doesn’t show any problems over the small things currently being done.

You shoe, or boot, the horse when it cannot perform its required functions without becoming foot-sore.

Is she right that the horse needs “support” from the shoes, even if staying sound with no issues?

Maybe so and maybe not. This is not a “one size fits all” issue on either side.

I feel that’s a very ‘old school’ way to think of things, saying that to jump 2’6 consistently, my horse needs to be in shoes.

At $120/5 weeks for fronts and $210 for 4, I’m thinking that will tap me out rather quickly.

What you “feel” is irrelevant. What’s happening to the horse’s hoof is not. If the horse requires something you can’t afford then maybe you should reconsider your discipline choice?

Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

I tried to find a video I saw years ago at a local farrier’s shop. It showed a comparison of a barefoot horse and shod horse moving at the walk and trot on a plexiglas floor with a camera looking up. It was illuminating to say the least.

The barefoot hoof actually expands a lot more than ever thought it did. But so did the shod hoof. If you’re using a standard shoe (not a bar shoe or heavy shoe or some specialty shoe) the hoof still flexed an incredible amount; a lot more than I thought it would. It completely the debunked the oft repeated claim that “a shod hoof can’t flex sufficiently for soundness.”

Now this video was of flat work. What is the difference in expansion between a hoof striking the ground on the flat and that same hoof striking the ground from a height of 2’6" plus the clearance over the obstacle? I don’t know. But the higher the horse jumps the more force is going to be put on the hoof when it hits the ground. That’s just the Physics of Newton’s First Law. So before I blithely rejected the “conventional wisdom” on shoeing I’d want to ask some serious questions.

Then there’s also the question of repetition rate. If you jump your horse once a week then there will be wear, tear, and six days of repair. If you’re doing this four or five days a week will the body be able to sufficiently deal with the inevitable stresses that will cause some damage to the hoof structure? Not being involved with jumping I don’t know. But I do know enough to ask the question.

Some horses need shoes; some don’t. Let the horse tell you if they do or don’t. And don’t ignore what the horse is telling you because it doesn’t fit into your philosophy or budget.

G.

[Alter_Walter]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8266234]
How much jumping? Once a week, or 4 days a week? On poofy arena footing, or hard stony outside ground? How many fences per lesson? 8-20, or 30-50? Is he comfortable barefoot in your flat work? Do you have ambitions to be doing a higher level by early Fall?

A very good AA-circuit sporthorse vet once told me that “The horse is not making a real physical jumping effort, just an expanded canter stride, until the fences exceed three feet.” Meaning, there is no concussion or bodily strain in jumping smaller fences. Which is food for thought.

I have also read studies that show a shod horse’s resting heart rate is 10 BPM higher than a barefoot horse; thought to be the absence of frog pressure helping to return blood upward. This denotes a certain amount of physiological stress inherent in living shod–not to mention financial stress.

Both of these considerations would make me hesitate to shoe, AS LONG AS the horse is comfortable in his work without shoes jumping at that height. What you have to weigh is the number of jumping efforts (or actual time spent) per week vs. the time he spends standing around, grazing, u/s on the flat, etc.

There is no one-size-fits-all rule; every horse is different and I hope keeping him bare for now is not a deal-breaker for your trainer.[/QUOTE]

Weather permitting, the horse is ridden 4-5 times a week in a grass arena. The arena is typically firm, but not hard. Horse jumps 1-2 times a week, under 10 jumps total. I’d like to increase jumping to a solid 2 times a week, still under or at 10 jumps total, working our way up as we progress.

Horse is completely sound and is having no issues with under saddle or over fences work at this time. It was just a conversation that turned into shoe talk with my trainer that got me wondering. She says “any” horse, not that this advice was specific to mine, the way in which the horse is going, or anything like that.

The only time the horse ever displays discomfort is going over gravel, which is not a thing we common encounter.

With boots–are those okay to jump in? I’ve got no experience with hoof boots. When my horse was first transitioning from the race plates I thought about boots, but ended up never getting them because the soreness subsided after a few weeks.

[big_red_ottb]

Having taken my TB barefoot after years in shoes, and done dressage and jump work with him, seeing improved movement and comfort for him, I’m of the mindset that it is silly to shoe a horse that is comfortable barefoot just because of some arbitrary rule.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=Alter Walter;8266340]
Weather permitting, the horse is ridden 4-5 times a week in a grass arena. The arena is typically firm, but not hard. Horse jumps 1-2 times a week, under 10 jumps total. I’d like to increase jumping to a solid 2 times a week, still under or at 10 jumps total, working our way up as we progress.

Horse is completely sound and is having no issues with under saddle or over fences work at this time. It was just a conversation that turned into shoe talk with my trainer that got me wondering. She says “any” horse, not that this advice was specific to mine, the way in which the horse is going, or anything like that.

The only time the horse ever displays discomfort is going over gravel, which is not a thing we common encounter.

With boots–are those okay to jump in? I’ve got no experience with hoof boots. When my horse was first transitioning from the race plates I thought about boots, but ended up never getting them because the soreness subsided after a few weeks.[/QUOTE]

That amount of jumping, at under 3 feet, would not be enough to make me think about shoeing. At that height, that’s really very minimal.

If you were jump-schooling 3x/week at 30 or more fences per session, (IOW approaching 90-100 fences per week) it might be more of a question.

[Andean_Echo]

Oh how I feel your pain! Honestly, my advice would be to turn to some research-based hoof and farrier books to seek some answers. So much of shoeing is anecdotal and based on very subjective observations from both farriers and owners. Now, I think you’ll find a lot of mixed opinions even from literature, but I would trust and weigh those opinions, first. I would look for the most recent and most sound research, too. Try to stick to the 21st century if you can.

That being said, I will offer my anecdotal story: I never shod my TB mare even as people told me that I was insane for not shoeing a TB, but I never found it necessary. Then, I moved states and was immediately urged to shoe the fronts. Not only was there no change in my horse’s performance, but often she would pull her shoes and massive portions of the hoofwall with come with them, leading to disastrously cracked and chipped hooves. And this was work done by a certified journeyman farrier. (I did read somewhere that this can be caused by nailing too close to the white line, but my mare is now retired and doesn’t wear shoes anymore so I never investigated this claim further). Anyway, in hindsight I never would have shod her because there was never a problem that needed addressing.

These days, I am of the opinion that a lot of shoeing has become at best excessive and unnecessary and at worst detrimental to the health of hooves. I do not think all shoeing is bad by any means, but it’s not a decision I make lightly anymore.

[Ghazzu]

When to shoe?

1. when the foot needs protection

2. when you need to improve traction

3. when you desire to change the way the horse moves.

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Lady Eboshi;8266234]

I have also read studies that show a shod horse’s resting heart rate is 10 BPM higher than a barefoot horse; thought to be the absence of frog pressure helping to return blood upward. .[/QUOTE]

Got a source for that?
I’d be interested