Short front legs are associated with top dressage performance.

Dressagelvr you made me think. So I’ve done a search for a conformation photo of Valegro and found one. He’s got lovely conformation but his stifles are definitely 3-4" higher than his elbows.

I think we are so conditioned to seeing horses standing on sloping ground for their PR conformation photos it has skewed our ideas of what their conformation is actually like.

You can see Valegro’s conformation if you scroll down on this link.

http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/2012/11/16/olympic-riders-launch-new-feed-balancer

And here’s Uthopia. As Carl says he’s got short front legs.

http://www.boblangrish.com/galleriesimage.php?id=21498

And here’s Totilas who, if he was stood up square, would probably have higher stifles than elbows too.

http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/totilas.shtml

And finally here’s the style of conformation photo that we are now all so used to seeing. Uphill sloping ground, back legs slightly splayed to enhance the appearance of being uphill. This is Damon Hill. Who’d like to bet that if he was stood up square he would also have shorter front legs with stifles higher than his elbows?

http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallions/damonhill.shtml

In the video, Carl was not talking about Valegro (regarding shorter front legs). He was talking about the young horse Charlotte was riding and about Uthopia.

people can focus too much on this sort of thing. It’s much more important how they move than how they look standing still.

I think that breeders/buyers are focussing too much on this. But they aren’t focussing on the reality of the conformation of the top horses. They are focussing on the fairy tale that is being sold to us by taken-on-a-slope conformation photos.

What really worries me is that stallion selectors seem to be buying into the myth that long front legs are desirable too. There was a photo of a grey stallion recently posted on euro dressage that had been chosen to move forward in the Danish stallion gradings. His front legs were long and his overall proportions did not look as if they would lead to long term soundness.

Can anyone post confo pictures showing horses with a true long front leg? ( not a tilted photo) so I’m guessing you would mean that the elbow must actually be higher than the stifle to be ‘long’

I don’t think short front legs necessarily means short cannons…

And isn’t Uthopia’s conformation interesting? He’s not the best put together horse in the world.

[QUOTE=stolensilver;7374862]
COTH seems to hate my iPad so had to post the link without any comments.

I’ll preface this by saying I think Carl Hester is wonderful. He has been there, done it, got the t-shirt and says the things no one else seems to. In the above link he says he went to holland and was told by the KWPN stallion jury that they had done a study of top dressage horses and found that short front legs correlated with top dressage performance. He then goes on to say that Uthopia has short front legs, as does charlotte’s 5yo.

The old belief that short canon bones were linked to soundness seems to still be true. And the modern idea that a horse needs long front legs in order to be uphill appears to be false.

I wonder how long it will be before the findings of this study are reflected in the new stallions that are licenced?[/QUOTE]
Like a good Irish Draught!

A big butt helps too

How about this one? He’s 4 in the photo.

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2014/01/11/six-stallions-begin-2014-danish-warmblood-winter-stallion-performance-testing

[QUOTE=stolensilver;7379485]
How about this one? He’s 4 in the photo.

http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2014/01/11/six-stallions-begin-2014-danish-warmblood-winter-stallion-performance-testing[/QUOTE]

That conformation scares the pea turkey out of me. His front legs look like bows waiting to happen.

Do dressage horses bow tendons as much as race horses do? In fact, are bowed tendons common in any horse sport but racing? You never seem to hear about them.

I’d be more concerned with the hocks out behind than the length of legs.

Elbow to stifle quite level but that’s not the whole picture and is why we should not focus on ONe thing.

Do dressage horses bow tendons as much as race horses do? In fact, are bowed tendons common in any horse sport but racing? You never seem to hear about them.

The answer to your first question is no. The answer to your second question is any speed event that requires or encourages a horse to grip and pull itself with his forehand at high speed (keep in mind that all things are relative) or basically anything that increases the chances for hyperextension of the fetlock under conditions of fatigue increases the chances for bowed tendons. This is why long toes, low heels especially coupled with poor conditioning can set up a situation for a bow to happen. Dressage horses tend to receive stress/strain and injury to the suspensory as opposed to the DDFT or SDFT which (at least it’s my belief) has to do with the lack of speed but a similar set up leading to injury (fatigue).

I think Fannie Mae hit the nail on the head. “uphill” is produced by dynamics of movement, not a static structural balance.

I have seen many horses who are built in the “German Shepard” mode who are still quite able to travel on their forehand. They don’t look particularly downhill, but they are WORKING downhill, and are able to do “fakeydoo” dressage that lots of people are very satisfied with until the rubber meets the road somewhere in fourth level. By then, though, it’s often time for a new horse…

The Valegro conformation shot does indeed show a rectangular horse with elbows lower than stifles, and a VERY open shoulder angle with a long fore arm.

Love this.

[QUOTE=arlosmine;7379665]
The Valegro conformation shot does indeed show a rectangular horse with elbows lower than stifles, and a VERY open shoulder angle with a long fore arm.[/QUOTE]

Agree with this 100%. The angle between scapula and humerus being at least 90 degrees and ideally more (a very open shoulder angle) allied to a long humerus are proven to be associated with a big range of motion in the front leg and so associated with top dressage and also top show jumping horses.

How strange that open shoulder angle and long humerus is rarely mentioned when people are talking about desired conformation yet long front legs, which has a negative correlation with performance, is valued.

The answer to why long front legs can be given by a prima ballerina. It is all for looks and grace. Without looks, no prima. With looks and hard work, prima.

[QUOTE=stolensilver;7379420]
Dressagelvr you made me think. So I’ve done a search for a conformation photo of Valegro and found one. He’s got lovely conformation but his stifles are definitely 3-4" higher than his elbows.

I think we are so conditioned to seeing horses standing on sloping ground for their PR conformation photos it has skewed our ideas of what their conformation is actually like.

You can see Valegro’s conformation if you scroll down on this link.

http://www.horseandcountry.tv/news/2012/11/16/olympic-riders-launch-new-feed-balancer[/QUOTE]

Huh? His stifle joint is at least even with his elbow. We must be looking at different things.

He looks almost level to me if you adjust so feet are on the same level. Stifle maybe a little bit higher than elbow - not 3-4 ".

Carl singled out Uthopia, not Valegro, in his comments.

Are you looking at the stifle protrusion or the joint? I need to learn how to put arrows on pictures.

I also confess that I find stifles confusing. Flame away, but they often look different to me on different horses (easier to see on some horses than others).

[QUOTE=arlosmine;7379665]
I think Fannie Mae hit the nail on the head. “uphill” is produced by dynamics of movement, not a static structural balance.[/QUOTE]

Very much agree with this.