Shortening stride while maintaining impulsion

[OveroHunter]

Thanks so much for the kind remarks are constructive criticisms! Reins are my constant issue that popped up somewhere in the last 10 years while I played around on trail rides and greenies at the ranch and couldn’t afford lessons.

I really like the half seat/two point suggestions! I will definitely start with poles though because (as evidenced in the video) I love laying on her neck and letting her carry me so I can just see myself throwing my torso at her between jumps down the line instead of still carrying myself and riding leg to hand in a half seat.

I was hoping to be able to show her myself this spring in the 3’ green divisions, but at this point I think I’ll just keep it low, work on myself, and let my trainer’s assistant continue to do the showing. I’m really just lucky I have a green horse that tolerates this kind of thing and can still give a pro a good ride

[OveroHunter]

[QUOTE=TSWJB;7915060]
OP you ride a lot like I do! And your horse reminds me of mine as well!
I am constantly too slow! My horse is so quiet! And when I want to get his stride longer I chase him! Not good! the first fence you were using your seat to drive him. I do that too! It actually slows them down. You need leg to hand and then slight use of seat, but not before leg to hand. That has to be first.
And the fourth jump that you chipped, you totally ran at it because you were too quiet with lack of impulsion to the last line you jumped.
I can totally relate to all these things! And yes a more made up horse can just carry you around the course easily in the pace, unlike our horses that need us to help them carry the pace!
It takes a lot and I mean a lot of learning! Don’t get frustrated! If you have a good teacher, just keep practicing your skills.
I have a very good teacher and she talks all the time about the bad canter. When I first started with her, I didn’t even know he had a bad canter. BUT with a lot of work, he has a BEAUTIFUL canter in there as well! I have learned how to achieve the BEAUTIFUL canter on the flat. I can apply this canter over poles, but put the jumps up to 2.6ft and I abandon ship! And there goes my horse, back to the slow impulsion-less canter. Then I get frustrated for going so slow, and I chase him. This usually does not bring good results, from wicked chips to falling off! Not good! I am not going to chase anymore! (I hope!)
Its very difficult to learn. But tons of transitions with horse staying round thru the upward transitions and the downward transitions helps. Do not let them pull thru the front, because that means the horse is off his hind end and this does happen at the jumps and it is more critical for them to be on the hind end to jump well! By practicing round transitions on the flat, you can save your horse and save yourself from having scary jumps!
Lots and lots of pole work helps too. Set the striding so you know what you should get, and then go to the poles when you feel you have that carrying canter. If you didn’t get the striding right, you probably had the wrong pace!
One more thing to think about is did you keep your leg on? My trainer videotaped my leg only on Tuesday to show me that it is not staying on even though I think it is! and that greatly contributes to my horse slowing down. Then with leg off I chase with my seat to rev the engines and that just produces a horse on the front end.
I find when I have the correct pace, all my distances always come up perfectly! But boy is it hard to get that right pace. And yes the pro can get on my horse and get it done really quickly even after I have been struggling in a lesson!
Good luck![/QUOTE]

We do seem to have a lot in common! I feel like when I start my ride I have a good solid leg, but as you mentioned, I think the driving seat is usually the last resort for us chasers because we’re not effectively using our legs. Looking at some stills it does seem like my leg slips a bit https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10103660938696350&set=a.10103132885758670.1073741829.4923850&type=3&theater (ok, so I mostly posted this because look how cute she is with her knees!)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10103660939569600&set=a.10103132885758670.1073741829.4923850&type=3&theater

Egawd, those reins are so long. I’m sure you can guess how well I ride the back end of the jump looking at this pic

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Another consideration is balance. You can not have a “collected” canter without it. Can you hold a balanced counter canter?

A good exercise that we would do with the jumpers was walk, canter 10 strides, walk 3-4 steps, pick up counter canter for 10 strides, walk 3-4 steps, pick up true canter. rinse and repeat around the entire ring. You want crisp transitions from the walk to the canter and keep them up and in front of your leg…and it is critical to keep them straight (shoulders and haunches) or you can not get the lead you want. And yes, we would still pick up the counter canter even if heading into the corner. It really is a test of having them between both legs and hands.

Then there is turn on haunches into a counter canter, around the short end of the ring, walk, turn on haunches into counter canter back the other way.

Last exercise…lengthen canter down long side shorten and do a 10 meter canter circle in the corner…and not by pulling around on the inside rein But ride the outside shoulder around the smaller circle keeping the implusion from the canter lengthen.

Lots and lots of exercises…but you need to do them correctly. Which means having the reins short enough, and keeping the horse in front of your leg and STRAIGHT. Lots of leg and good core strength from you to hold your position while still being soft with your arms.

[gypsymare]

Leg, leg, leg, leg! I took lessons for years without really “getting it” when people said leg to hand, or collect, or sit up and half halt, until I had a clinic with someone who really broke it down for me. I guess somewhere in my mind I was attached to the thought that more leg meant more speed so I was riding as softly as possible to calm the horse down and not drive, trying to maintain tempo with my body.

Well, Elizabeth Solter had a field day with me and we worked on LIGHTEN WITH LEG until I was an oozing puddle of jello. Round after round of “MORE LEG!!!” and holy cow it worked. Those nervous/fast/heavy mouthed horses started calming down, elevating in front and not rushing off with me. The more leg I could manage the lighter and rounder they got.

Teaching this early seems to be more of a dressage thing. I feel like I was just taught to perch and stay out of the way for so long by many hunter trainers. Even so, the best hunter trainers know this and teach it!

[OveroHunter]

We just started working on counter canter last week. Penny was thrilled with that because we had finally mastered perfect walk to canter transitions and now all of a sudden I was asking her for the wrong lead! She was like, “No ma’am, I know my job and this isn’t it!”

It didn’t take too long though before she begrudgingly picked up the “wrong lead” and cantered a nice circle. I definitely want to start throwing this into my regular warm up. So far we have only done it in that one lesson.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

[QUOTE=OveroHunter;7915159]
We just started working on counter canter last week. Penny was thrilled with that because we had finally mastered perfect walk to canter transitions and now all of a sudden I was asking her for the wrong lead! She was like, “No ma’am, I know my job and this isn’t it!”

It didn’t take too long though before she begrudgingly picked up the “wrong lead” and cantered a nice circle. I definitely want to start throwing this into my regular warm up. So far we have only done it in that one lesson.[/QUOTE]

Proper counter canter work is a great tool for improving and strengthing a canter. It takes WORK to hold a more collected canter with implusion. For the horse to do it well…it takes core strength on their part. Doing transitions (good ones…walk to canter, but also trot to walk and trot to canter) as well as doing counter canter is like doing horsey sit ups and planks to help improve their core strength.

With the UL jumpers…we would also do counter canter figure eight patterns doing a flying lead change over the center. I hated that exercise. I would be dripping sweat and as tired as the horse I was on when I was done! But it did really show the strength in the canter and help them really sit and hold the more collected canter with implusion.

[SuzieQNutter]

You are thinking about a slower canter instead of a higher canter. It takes more push to canter colkected not less.

I would start working with collecting in the trot. The trot is the training pace not the canter.

The muscle that you get from a collected trot will go over to your canter as well.

You want a higher step not a slower step you need to keep the bounce - this means that with your seat you keep the bounce in the legs of the horse not bouncing out of the saddle!

Because the legs are coming higher it takes more time for them to touch the ground again and that is why it looks slower.

[SuzieQNutter]

You start with counter canter on loops to help with not confusing the horse when you start with counter canter.

[OveroHunter]

[QUOTE=SuzieQNutter;7915265]
You are thinking about a slower canter instead of a higher canter. It takes more push to canter colkected not less.

I would start working with collecting in the trot. The trot is the training pace not the canter.

The muscle that you get from a collected trot will go over to your canter as well.

You want a higher step not a slower step you need to keep the bounce - this means that with your seat you keep the bounce in the legs of the horse not bouncing out of the saddle!

Because the legs are coming higher it takes more time for them to touch the ground again and that is why it looks slower.[/QUOTE]

Not confused, perfectly aware that we have not achieved a collected canter and have only managed a slow, lazy, sucked back canter when going slow. I’ve rode packers before who have that awesome feeling, upward, collected canter and it’s such a dream! I’m hoping we’ll be there in a few years when we address these other issues

[findeight]

On the subject of the “marching walk” being the one you want when schooling, not the plugging around walk shuffling up a dust cloud? Do you realize the collected trot is not only “bouncy” with legs moving higher due to harnessed impulsion, it’s NOT slow?

Common mistake. Letting them schlep around at a pokey walk and slow jog with no impulsion is not going to help you or them master the collected canter.

This is where Dressage lessons from a qualified instructor, that could be a good H/J trainer or a Dressage specialist familiar with the needs of H/J riders, are going to do you more good then all the ground poles and Internet tips.

You really need somebody to teach you personally to get the whole creating and directing impulsion concept. Once you “get it” it’s a huge Edison moment.

[OveroHunter]

We’re working on forward now. No schlepping in the trot or canter, but I could definitely improve on the marching walk

Lessons go very well because I have my trainer making sure we keep forward, forward, forward… but I’m sure you can imagine that sometimes at home I can drift off into lala land and then we’re just going for a joy ride around the arena.

I appreciate all the suggestions that we keep going forward before working about true collection while maintaining impulsion. Once we both get stronger, I’ll worry more about shortening stride through collection while maintaining impulsion. In my previous post, I just wanted to let you know that I do know the difference and understand what you’re saying, but knowing and doing is different, which is why I have a trainer :lol:

I’m also really enjoying all the pole work suggestions! I don’t jump her very often at home, because I prefer to be under my trainer’s watchful eye, but pole work will really give me something to work on in between lessons

[JB]

Be careful urging for “more forward” - that can backfire and make a horse rushy. You have to work on straight(er) before you can get (more)impulsive forward movement. Crooked can’t go forward

[Daisyesq]

From a dressage rider:

Spiral in and out on the circle, shoulder in and haunches in at canter.

Canter-walk-canter transitions (no trot steps b4 walk, no rein-pulling either), then canter-halt transitions, back to canter (a step of walk allowed in the upward transition). Canter, get-ready-to-halt-then-don’t-halt transitions (there’s your half-halt!)

[OveroHunter]

JB - had that experience about a month ago

We added the first time, so I got her forward and did the line twice correctly, then we tried to add (on purpose this time) and I ticked her off. I got frustrated because I knew it was my fault. We took a quick time out, talked to the trainer, and went back at it and got it. Another reason I don’t like jumping on my own. I have a horrible habit of being a chaser/rusher. I really don’t know how I turned into that over the past ten years because I never did it as a junior… Just a few years off of regular riding and I came up with new issues

[TSWJB]

You probably are chasing because your horse is so slow! When it is hard to create impulsion alot of riders tend to shove with their upper bodies to create energy. it seems logical right! Lack of impulsion encourages jumping ahead. All this gets the horse on the forehand which does not create a properly carrying horse!
This week in my lessons we worked on square corners. This made my horse get on his hind end and gave me the right impulsion to the jumps! They work very well. Try to practice those! Use outside leg inside rein going into the corner. As you start the turn, change to slight inside bend with inside rein and strong outside leg. Then quickly switch back to outside rein, inside leg to catch them and make them stay straight! This worked wonders for me! Instead of getting deep dead distances with zero impulsion to tight turns, I was nailing nice distances!

[OveroHunter]

Y’all have been so great! I really appreciate all the ideas! And you are all so wildly correct and pinpointing what I struggle with. The vast knowledge on COTH is hard to find elsewhere!

[findeight]

[QUOTE=OveroHunter;7919779]
Y’all have been so great! I really appreciate all the ideas! And you are all so wildly correct and pinpointing what I struggle with. The vast knowledge on COTH is hard to find elsewhere![/QUOTE]

I don’t know that it’s because we are that smart or we all went through the same stage you are currently at. The longer you stay at this, the bigger your library of doing things wrong gets…

[SuzieQNutter]

Yep and I have all the position problems so I have a library to fix them as well!