Shortening stride while maintaining impulsion

[OveroHunter]

I have a fabulous coming 6 year old mare that is really coming along nicely. Only my pro has shown her so far, but she got champion at her first show (2’3 greenie division) and I couldn’t be prouder of her (even posted the video here for you guys a couple months back ). We’re schooling 2’9 - 3’ courses now and she takes great care of me, but I can definitely see how she appreciates the good pro rides she gets intermittently between my lessons.

Anyway, when I ride I have noticed that she has two speeds at the canter with me in the irons- slow and behind my leg, and quicker (the actual pace she should have to get around a course) and in front of my leg.

I would love some advice on getting a more collected canter out of her. I envy the people who can achieve the shorter stride while maintaining impulsion. We will work on the “collected” canter on the short side and extended canter on the long side, but we’re really just slowing down and sucking back. There’s nothing collected about it.

My pro is able to maintain her impulsion with a shorter collected stride much better than me, but I can only afford so many pro rides and lessons these days so any tips for my at home riding are very appreciated!

Maresy loves to pretend she is a WP horse with me so I mostly work on picking up her shoulder and keeping her in front of my leg - occasionally a nice huntery form comes out of this, but she mostly enjoys to keep her neck level with her nose poked out a bit. Also, she’s a bit like Zoolander when it comes to turning left :lol:

ETA: Here’s my other thread on her http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?437471-COTH-brought-us-together-brag-on-my-new-hunter!-UPDATE-First-show-was-a-success!/page2

She’s really an awesome mare, just looking for some fine tuning this winter

[DreamBignRide]

Correct collection will come much later in her training. Much of the collection you see in the hunter/eq world does not demonstrate it accurately. What you see and the only thing I guarentee you’ll be able to achieve with your mare currently, is a slow canter. Mistaken for a collected canter.

Anyway my recommnedation is to forget it. Worry about forward and working through her back. Correct work will create relaxation and pace which is most important. With the right development work, collection will come 2 years down the road…maybe.

[OveroHunter]

Haha yeah, we have mastered the slow canter… I swear she has aspirations of being a top WP horse… Too bad she jumps too well for that!

The farm I trailer to for lessons has some really nice, 6 figure horses, and I was watching a few of them the other day with their insanely good riders/pros and was jealous of their impulsion. She has decent impulsion when I get her forward and in front of my leg, but when I slow her down and try to keep her impulsion up, I just tick her off… Your suggestion is probably exactly why my trainer doesn’t focus on it as much as she focuses on keeping her forward. Just me trying to jump the gun lol.

[GoodTimes]

Keep her forward and infront of your leg, letting her suck back is counterproductive which it sounds like you know.
While keeping her forward you can try things like spiraling in and out on a circle, smaller circles in each corner, transitions between gaits, pole work in all gaits, hill or snow work if you can. Collection and impulsion are hard work, it takes strength and balance. She may be a little confused when you ask vs when your pro ask. As she gets stronger she’ll be more likely to offer it instead of just slowing down.
You could also try lunging with side reins. That way you can also see what she does when you stop pushing her forward. If she’s carrying herself she should be able to go from a lengthened stride to a more collected stride while keeping an active hind end.

[phoenixrises]

take what I say with a grain of salt but I can really “feel” the collection in my correct downward transitions, but mare is also too young to be doing it much longer than a stride maybe two. So I work a lot on transitions and half halts then back to the nice forward for 4-5 strides, then back down. I start this at the walk, really feeling her reach under as I ask her to slow.

[Lord_Helpus]

3 words:

Leg into hand.

[Equitational]

You could set two poles at unrelated distances (or a set distance maybe 5 or 6 strides) and work on getting as many strides as you can between the two poles. I did clinics with some BNRs in January and that was a lot of what they did. They had an honest four stride line set up, first jump was a large X and jump out was an oxer. They could get their 1.30M-1.60M horses to get 8 strides in that line (and still jump out over the 1.30M oxer). Talk about collection with impulsion…

[alterhorse]

Effective forward aids can take time to get the hang of. Do you ride with spurs?

Timing is everything for developing engagement/impulsion. If you haven’t worked much with timing yet, that could be something to ask your trainer about devoting a lesson to.

Some horses require a lot of subtly timed leg aids. Timed with the horse hind legs as they step forwards. If the aids are not timed a horse may learn to tune them out. Ask your trainer about “fluffing” your horses sides also. Fluffing is a technique for waking a horse up to the presence of your leg aids.

Some horses require a bit of forward canter in the warmup to wake them up also.

Without effective leg aids to create enough impulsion to ride from leg to hand, there will be insufficient connetion, and without that connection it can be hard to shorten stride length while maintaining impulsion.

Your balance has to be there to support your horses balance as well, once you are riding from leg to hand with your body in balance, you can then begin to ride from your seat, and then shortening becomes more of a mater of having your horse following your seat aids.

It can take a while to put it all together, but when you begin to have those moments of it all coming together, you’ll feel it, and realize how well a horse will listen to your aids when you are applying them effectively.

[woodhillsmanhattan]

Try setting up canter bounce poles on a straight line. Start out at 9’ between the poles and graduate shorten them to 7’. I like to put 2-3 poles at 9’ and then go down in 1/2’ increments every pole. This can be challenging, but it’s fun once you and your horse get the hang of it!

| 9’ | 9’ | 8.5’| 8’ | 7.5’ | 7’ |

Another suggestion would be to put bounce canter poles on a circle. Start with a large canter circle (~20m) and place 3-6 canter poles on one “side” of the circle in an arch type manner. So that the canter poles just fall on the track of your circle. Make the CENTER of the canter poles 9’ apart. I think it usually ends up that the sides of the poles closest to the center are 6’ apart and the sides on the outermost edge of the circle are 12’ apart. You can work on maintaining the impulsion in the circle by shortening and making the circle a little smaller and moving a little to the inside track of the poles.

It would kind of look like this if you were just using 3 poles…
|/

Set up exercises that MAKE you do it. Someone can only tell me “leg to hand” so many times. Allow the exercises to help you achieve the feeling.

[findeight]

My trainer always said think of the carousel horse…round and round, up down, up down. The bouncy canter.

You can visualize all you want but you can really FEEL that up down merry go round bouncy canter. Works teaching Pony kids, worked getting me to understand an uphill horse between leg and hand far better then excessive theory and gibberish about “thoroughness” that had me thinking about how to translate it into what horse and I were attempting to do more then I was actually riding it.

Up down up down bouncy canter around and around…try it. Ride the horse.

[netg]

Put your hand in a flat fist against your stomach, below your sternum and between your ribs where they curve down and go to the sides. Think of pulling your ribs together to pinch your hand. Get so that feeling is easy to access, then while riding get her in your canter w/ energy, access that feeling, and when she wants to slow down bump her with your legs - may actually be a squeeze, not legs away then on her side bump. Some people would call it a half halt, but you need to think either half bounce using findeight’s comment, or half up because your core is working to lift her so her strides have a higher arc which shortens the stride while the hoof still spends the same amount of time in the air. Don’t ask for it off your hands, as I suspect that’s what keeps slowing her, and make sure you think of continuing to ride the same tempo with your body, giving with your hands at the same tempo, any rhythmic squeeze with your legs you may do, a sinking into your heels, whatever you feel in the rhythm of the more forward canter - keep it going.

[merrygoround]

In order for your horse to get into a bouncy, collected canter, you need to put your body into that bouncy collectible canter. Think of your body doing a very bouncy waltz, and then do it!

You must carry you!

[RockstarPony]

If she’s just not getting it right now, don’t worry about it too much! Doing the usual strength exercises will help and getting your position right will help her understand what you’re asking, but it might just be a matter of strength. She’s still young, there’s no real rush. Keep her going in front of your leg no matter what, and take some time to make sure she really has her forward and her downward transitions down pat - no dying in your downwards or else! Do your circles w/t/c and ask her to push from behind and stay balanced. She doesn’t really have to be in a perfect frame as long as she’s always marching along in a steady rhythm; it’ll help her later when she’s learning that she can half-halt UP instead of half-halting back. I think if you keep doing the basics correctly & consistently and come back to it in a month or two, you’ll be surprised how much stronger she is!

[jetsmom]

[QUOTE=Equitational;7913747]
You could set two poles at unrelated distances (or a set distance maybe 5 or 6 strides) and work on getting as many strides as you can between the two poles. I did clinics with some BNRs in January and that was a lot of what they did. They had an honest four stride line set up, first jump was a large X and jump out was an oxer. They could get their 1.30M-1.60M horses to get 8 strides in that line (and still jump out over the 1.30M oxer). Talk about collection with impulsion…[/QUOTE]

This works great, even using just poles. You have to sit up and really use leg to keep the canter.

[OveroHunter]

Such great suggestions! It really makes me realize I am jumping ahead of myself and trying to find an easy answer instead of the obvious one - fitness, fitness, fitness!

DH and I just moved and will be bringing to live on our little farm instead of the ranch in a couple of weeks so as soon as I get her here there will be lots of pole work and hill work in our future.

It’s also nice to see some validation that we’re on the right track. We have to lesson in a smaller indoor since I ride at nights and its the only ring with lights so my trainer has been doing a lot of pole work and hind end work with us. We’re doing pretty good with the unrelated distances over poles, but when we pop them up to around 2’6, I have a hard time getting her to put in the extra step… If she can do it over poles, she can do it over fences, but it’s all rider error. I have a horrible habit of getting tired and not being able to effectively ride leg to hand in the middle of a course.

It’s hard to admit your flaws, especially when it all boils down to your personal fitness level, but when I’m stronger and can better carry myself for maresy then I can expect more of her. It’s just so weird going from a decent junior rider who was naturally in shape and slim from riding since I was a little kid to an adult who still is naturally slim(ish) but wickedly out of shape for riding.

ETA: For anyone who is curious, here’s me riding. Jumps are all set somewhere between 2’6 and 3’ (well only the first jump is 3’, but I’m counting it). It includes me fabulously screwing up the 4th fence and Penny saving me and letting me know how she feels about my screw up :lol: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10103545755793810&set=vb.4923850&type=3&theater

[avesane]

Wow, I love your girl! She’s a cute cute mover. And I love her attitude when you push her to that jump and she has to chip. She totally saw the distance from the corner and you made her miss - and she let you know! Adorable.

I have been doing what I call “10,000 transitions” with my horse to work on his balance. We do random shapes all over the arena (because 20m circles make us both want to die of boredom) and we do changes of bend, transitions within the gait, and transitions between gaits. If you are having trouble with transitions within, I would just do transitions between as someone has mentioned.

I would not school flying changes - the one change that you asked her to do on that film she missed a bit - I would leave that to the pro rides and work on her fitness yourself, which will help her get her butt under her for the flying change.

[findeight]

That’s not bad but if you use a half seat or two point more between the fences when you don’t want the collected canter, she’ll repond better when you sit into her to collect. Right now you are sitting most of the ride,

You probably know you are throwing your shoulder instead of closing hip angle at your fences. Little more strength ought to solve that.

I’d work on you, go from full seat to half seat to two point on the flat, with and without irons, you can just walk to start then build to the other gaits then add fences. I think once you get stronger, horse will just fall into it under you. Got a ways to go but you’ll get there. Nice horse BTW.

[JB]

Find a good Dressage trainer to work with you. One thing pretty common about Hunter riders is not knowing how to take/teach the right contact, and if you’re not doing much in the way of providing a boundary with the reins, then whatever energy you generate from behind is going to “run out the door” in front.

Never, ever settle for a “slow” canter. That is not impulsive, it’s working the wrong muscles, and not working the right ones.

I didn’t see this mentioned, but something else to work on is get a good hand gallop going, then settle your seat to keep the back end active, but also use the seat to slow the front end. Half halt as necessary. Slowing down correctly, requires the horse to sit back and use the hind end to help slow down, instead of falling on the forehand and “propping”, and that’s part of what makes for a shorter stride without losing impulsion.

When you do related pole distances and try to add and remove strides, it’s really easy to do it wrong by rushing the horse instead of getting a longer stride, and pulling the horse into a flat, short stride, instead of an impulsive shorter stride.

Your girl is adorable And the video sort of proves my point about the contact. The no-contact slightly draped reins is great for a horse who knows their job, but without that contact, you’re not going to be able to teach her how to package herself.

The Land of 10,000 Transitions is a good one, because that serves multiple purposes - it builds strength, and it teaches the horse how to sit back to do both up and down trannies. But, as with any exercise, they must must must be done correctly. You can do all the trannies in the world, but if she does them by pulling herself into them, and falling on her face out of them, they aren’t going to do any good. If your Hunter trainer doesn’t know how to teach you to do them correctly, then I’d again suggest a good Dressage trainer.

[TSWJB]

OP you ride a lot like I do! And your horse reminds me of mine as well!
I am constantly too slow! My horse is so quiet! And when I want to get his stride longer I chase him! Not good! the first fence you were using your seat to drive him. I do that too! It actually slows them down. You need leg to hand and then slight use of seat, but not before leg to hand. That has to be first.
And the fourth jump that you chipped, you totally ran at it because you were too quiet with lack of impulsion to the last line you jumped.
I can totally relate to all these things! And yes a more made up horse can just carry you around the course easily in the pace, unlike our horses that need us to help them carry the pace!
It takes a lot and I mean a lot of learning! Don’t get frustrated! If you have a good teacher, just keep practicing your skills.
I have a very good teacher and she talks all the time about the bad canter. When I first started with her, I didn’t even know he had a bad canter. BUT with a lot of work, he has a BEAUTIFUL canter in there as well! I have learned how to achieve the BEAUTIFUL canter on the flat. I can apply this canter over poles, but put the jumps up to 2.6ft and I abandon ship! And there goes my horse, back to the slow impulsion-less canter. Then I get frustrated for going so slow, and I chase him. This usually does not bring good results, from wicked chips to falling off! Not good! I am not going to chase anymore! (I hope!)
Its very difficult to learn. But tons of transitions with horse staying round thru the upward transitions and the downward transitions helps. Do not let them pull thru the front, because that means the horse is off his hind end and this does happen at the jumps and it is more critical for them to be on the hind end to jump well! By practicing round transitions on the flat, you can save your horse and save yourself from having scary jumps!
Lots and lots of pole work helps too. Set the striding so you know what you should get, and then go to the poles when you feel you have that carrying canter. If you didn’t get the striding right, you probably had the wrong pace!
One more thing to think about is did you keep your leg on? My trainer videotaped my leg only on Tuesday to show me that it is not staying on even though I think it is! and that greatly contributes to my horse slowing down. Then with leg off I chase with my seat to rev the engines and that just produces a horse on the front end.
I find when I have the correct pace, all my distances always come up perfectly! But boy is it hard to get that right pace. And yes the pro can get on my horse and get it done really quickly even after I have been struggling in a lesson!
Good luck!

[doublesstable]

If I took one big thing from the GM clinic last weekend was:

Leg into hand riding. Give and take. Don’t always be taking. He said “It’s a lot easier to take than to give. Don’t forget to give.”

He will not allow the horse to lolly-gag walk. He always insists on a marching walk. That’s where it starts. He believes in good Dressage basics.

Fan of his or not, good thoughts that seem to apply across the board.