Shorter canter stride on one side

[thecolorcoal]

please note: we have yearly lameness eval coming up so i might update reports have something to do with this, but she’s always been stronger on the right than the left.

we have decided to go 110% into dressage. I am taking one lesson monthly from a GP gold medalist who was my very first trainer and my weekly trainer (recommended by main trainer) who is a PSG rider.

Gold medalist says my horse is fine and has normal weakness. She has known us from our SI-injury years and when we truly were lame and really really helped us develop the muscles to make up for her old stifle weakness. I have been riding with this aspiring-BNT for about 1.5 years.

PSG trainer has been with us for 2 months since we moved to new barn and doesn’t know us as well. Moved from a barn that was very heavily H/J and horse was being moved into eventing. I rode once a week and didn’t show, but had a leaser ride and train her for me.

Wanted to share videos of my girl to see if anyone could spot anything “funny.” i am a hypochondriac and am looking for ways to work myself into a panic before our lameness exam…

Gold Medalist says she is sound. PSG rider says no.

She gained about ~100 lbs since moving from h/j/eventing barn where she was barely hitting 1050, and is now a little under 1200 (gained even more weight since these videos about 2 weeks ago… muscled out of her medium saddle into a wide in under 4 weeks). We have been at new barn for a little over 2 months and prior to that she was put in quarantine stall rest for 4 weeks due to a bad virus that struck our barn, and no horses could go anywhere. There was some weight gain from that.

She is a lot more “uphill” on the left lead but her right hind is her weaker hind according to what we can SEE. right lead has always been more “downhill,” with a longer stride and she tends to sort of go like an out of control train, just long and forward and unbalanced. Her right shoulder and hind is more developed than her left, and saddle fitting is tough…

right lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGEBCp4KYF8

left lead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnGabMVCK24

[tbchick84]

I see a horse who’s kicking up dirt at the trot every stride in both directions. Horse is making zero effort to engage her hind end. You said she was sitting around doing nothing for a month, so this is most likely just a matter of some muscle and conditioning. Before you spend a zillion dollars doing every test under the sun, can you just take her out into fields or the woods and put some muscle on her?

[alibi_18]

Just good conditionning should do the trick.
Looks quite normal to me, she gained weight, was undertrained for a month or so… I mean, I would be a little sluggish too!

[Edre]

Nothing stands out to me as indicating a horse that is off - unmotivated with the hind end (as, let’s be frank, most horses are naturally when given their preference) which could be related to her modest lack of conditioning, but not off.

The overwhelming majority of horses have discrepancies (ranging from “somewhat slight” to “glaringly egregious”) from one side to the next. Much like people, they will favor a “hand” (right handed, left handed). This can be exacerbated with rider tendency - most riders will have a strong side & a weak one, which can either compensate for a horse’s harder direction or compound an issue. I would assess if this is coming into play. Identify what her kinesthetic tendencies are (some can be explained by “she’s right/left handed”, some can be explained by old injury, some can be explained by rider habit), and then assess yours as well (what are your weak/strong sides, and are you contributing to the disparity from one direction to the next).

More conditioning and some analysis with your instructors on how your riding could be contributing might be a good place to start. (And being aware of your riding habits is a degree of mindfulness that will always assist, regardless of if they ultimately being largely insignificant in this situation - it will serve you well to figure out your defaults, strengths/weaknesses, and then ride with the presence of mind to try to start addressing them.)

[Rerider54]

@tbchick84

…Horse is making zero effort to engage her hind end…can you just take her out into fields or the woods and put some muscle on her?

Nice horse. A bit flat to the left but I see no “push” in either direction. I keep hearing what my former instructor would say ‘any calmer and that horse would be asleep’… current instructor suggested I take my horse out to a field and find another gear. I did that for the trot last fall. I am doing it for the canter this year when the weather cooperates.

[thecolorcoal]

update!

The vet came out yesterday and injected the stifles. There was an issue with the saddle which had been taken care of the week prior, but my mare was still not pushing off on the right hind. Vet said she has a “sloppy stifle/weak stifle/loose stifle,” anyone know if that is the same as UFP? She did declare my horse sound, but weak, even though the trainer kept interrupting that she “was lame” in the round pen… different story for a different day…

She told me injections would help horse feel safe to use the leg. She flexed clean on all joints and vet said she looked sounder than the last time she saw her (2 months ago for a different issue) so that was reassuring.

So far so good on the injections. We are on the second of 3 days of walk work, back to light work saturday and full work by the end of the month. We’re getting ready for our first rated show in October.

Can anyone tell me more about “sloppy” stifles? We were prescribed with more hind-end work. I asked vet how she could have deteriorated so fast, as she had only about 6 weeks off/light work due to the previous barn’s viral quarantine. Vet said it is very common and the timeline made sense but I am still in shock. She went from training second level and novice eventing to barely able to canter in 6 weeks…

I’ll keep everyone posted on progress. I am extremely skeptical of injections but my vet is the only vet i trust and certainly did not push me into the decision. However, the trainer did, as she doesn’t feel comfortable working the horse in any level of collection until I got this squared away.

Thanks for everyone’s support. COTH is great <3

[Scribbler]

I recall this horse has been NQR in the hind end for the entire time you’ve owned her, correct? It can certainly happen that if a horse is sore in one place and compensates by trying to protect that body part, it can get chronic stress injury in another body part. Like a human with a sore foot can end up with a sore knee or hip from walking unevenly. With a horse, SI, stifles, hocks, all interact.

Honestly, whether you say a horse is lame or NQR or ouchy or showing restricted movement, is just a matter of how tactful you are (and perhaps how good an eye you have).

As a for Instance, i was just noticing tonight, that a lease horse at our barn who I hadn’t seen under saddle probably for a year, is clearly getting stiff in the hocks. You can tell because the hock joint isn’t opening and closing like it should. It’s the same on both sides though so the horse isn’t presenting as head bobbing lame. I’m sure no one connected with the horse, owner coach or leasers, would notice.

Is this horse lame? Is it stiff? Is it NQR? Is it just not tracking up and using its hind end? Is it perfectly normal compared to other horses at the barn? Or all of the above?

[CanteringCarrot]

I know in America vets/clients are very “injection happy” but why didn’t the vet prescribe a fitness program first? I have/had a horse with a looser weak stifle and really focused on fitness. We did hills, poles, transitions, etc. And it made a difference. No injection needed. 6 weeks off or in lighter work is a long time. They would potentially effect my “stifle horse” too. Loosing fitness happens faster than gaining it.

Out of curiosity, what did the vet inject? You say the joint but did the vet blister the ligament or what? I would evaluate your fitness program and make sure it’s on track. It doesn’t have to be all about collection or roundness at the moment because that’s not possible of the horse isn’t fit. In the video she isn’t using herself much at all, so it wouldn’t surprise me that fitness/strength could be lacking. Few people seem to be able to grasp what medium and hard work actually is.

It’s not Upward Fixation if the Patella if it doesn’t lock up and not unlock regularly on its own as it should. If the joint isn’t locking and staying fixed in the locked position it isn’t UFP. It should be obvious whether it is that or not. You need to keep the quadriceps strong to help support the joint.

The injection may help, but it could be a bandaid so make sure to ride the horse correctly and in an active manner.

[thecolorcoal]

@Scribbler, yes she has been nqr for 2 years and i have pushed back an official diagnosis for fear of what they vet would say. my new trainer really really pressured me to get a full workup on her, and now that i have $$$ and a good paying job (phew) i could afford it. The vet did full flexions and found very little if anything but agreed that right hind was not coming through like left hind. more apparent on left lead canter. ive used this vet for 2 years and she knows our history. she said she didn’t look “that lame” to her, and @CanteringCarrot, had it not been for the trainer’s insistence that she would never be ok without injections i wouldn’t have done it.

the vet admitted that injections were not going to solve my issues. she was not a candidate for ligament splitting, estrone, or blistering as her issues were so slight. i asked about ultrasounds and x rays and vet said there was no need to progress further. she felt no heat or swelling in the leg itself. i told her horse was falling out behind when asked to use hind end and she said based on the history, the gait abnormality, and the lack of positive flexions this was her diagnosis.

Vet agreed with Grand Prix trainer that the horse needs more hind end work and she said once I get her quad strength back she will improve. The injections were to help her feel comfortable using her leg (? still a bit confused on this…). But the real reason I did them is because the trainer has been making up a million excuses as to why she won’t ride the horse (after learning her history of bucking) and I wanted to shut her only “back door” which is this “lameness,” so now the trainer has no choice but to ride her… well, we will see if this happens.

Again that’s a story for another thread. Good news is i’ve been hand walking her and the horse seems to want to take fuller and bigger steps on both sides, or maybe it’s my imagination and the placebo effect (there was no real reason to do the joint injections as there is no symptoms of arthritis…)

@CanteringCarrot, that’s what the vet said: she said we have the opposite issue. the joint isn’t locking, so there is no pillar of support. She said this explains why she can’t sleep standing up or hold her opposite leg for the farrier, why she can’t push off that leg in the canter and why she falls in on the left side. She said it is an issue with her hind leg conformation and, yes, we have to do the exercises anyway, but the injections would help horse feel confident in her leg in order to use it.

I asked about repeat injections and vet said no. I asked about hock injections and she said no because hocks weren’t flexing painful. Nothing flexed painful, the horse just doesn’t trust in that right hind to stay steady underneath her. I told her this has been a chronic issue for 2 years and vet said it will always be something that we have to watch and manage.

I am glad I got an on-paper diagnosis and a plan of attack, and that we know for sure what exactly is “wrong” with Tyra. I’m willing to pay the big bucks just to answer that…

As for the trainer… there was a look of disappointment (maybe?) when vet told her the horse wasn’t lame enough - if at all - to require injections or even this entire vet visit… as carrot said, they are only a bandaid. but the injections got the trainer off my back.

That is a bigger issue for another thread which I will write soon.

[thecolorcoal]

@CanteringCarrot, sorry, the vet used a corticosteroid. again, the joint was not arthritic, but she told me the domino effect of ligaments and tendons starts with the joint. this was not a blistering. i asked about that and estrone, as i did a lot of research on coth. she said the horse simply wasn’t “lame” enough for any of it, and the patella was not locking. her issues were so mild that she said this was the “fast track” if I wanted to hit one bird with 5 stones (aka overkill) , but I am going to have to do the long and hard road regardless. Not to thrilled about spending money on something I technically could have done without. The vet wasn’t pressuring me, but the trainer was.

I was told by a local boarder who’s horse had stifle issues that it was UFP after I did the work up. Obviously I was misinformed by this person. I am not sure what UFP is, in relation to locking patella. The vet herself said nothing of UFP or locking patella, and only called it “sloppy stifle.” a google search revealed no actual medical name for this condition. Do you know what it is?

–

sorry as i read your post I get more ideas to answer. The horse was in heavy heavy heavy work for 8 months. I made a post about her losing weight rapidly on here and I got comments about her caloric intake not being met. it was hard for me to believe this because she’s always maintained weight on the same amount of feed that worked for us for over a year, but since moving to the last barn she was at she went from needing only 3-4 lbs of grain a day to 10 and from 15 lbs of hay to nearly 30. BOs refused to feed her more grain and hay. She was losing condition so quickly that her saddles that fit her perfectly were now way too big. She wasn’t being worked over her back, just in a super condensed short frame. She was jumping the hard, tough courses 3x a week. I had zero control over her exercise plan as I was slowly being sidelined by my trainer and leaser at the time. I know it sounds ridiculous but the floor fell out from underneath me all at once.

Now she is worked 30 minutes at most a day. lessons consist of really easy walk/trot. She eats over 20 lbs of hay a day, gets turnout twice a day for an hour each, and is fed 5 lbs of grain. She went from a medium narrow saddle to a wide in 8 weeks. We do trail riding a lot now which has a lot of rocky parts and she is doing amazing, but she dropped from hard work to light/medium immediately upon switching barns. I am still new to stifle issues and I was just shocked she could have possibly dropped condition THAT FAST. I really did not expect her to. She was eventing fit and is now a pudge.

photos of her condition about 3 weeks ago.

[CanteringCarrot]

I think her condition looks fine. Her weight is good. Just needs strength and fitness. That’ll help.

[thecolorcoal]

@CanteringCarrot, thank you so much. like i said, at the last barn her stifle issues went away. they’ve come back so fast. is this truly what happens? can they lose muscle tone in a 4-week time period?

[CanteringCarrot]

@thecolorcoal

@CanteringCarrot, thank you so much. like i said, at the last barn her stifle issues went away. they’ve come back so fast. is this truly what happens? can they lose muscle tone in a 4-week time period?

Yep. Extra time in a stall (change of turnout) can have an effect. So can any gap in their fitness regiment.

[thecolorcoal]

@CanteringCarrot

Yep. Extra time in a stall (change of turnout) can have an effect. So can any gap in their fitness regiment.

wow. well now that i know i could save myself some on vet appointment bills. thank you!

[CanteringCarrot]

I mean, I’m all for calling the vet and ruling things out, but there are other factors too.

[thecolorcoal]

@CanteringCarrot

I mean, I’m all for calling the vet and ruling things out, but there are other factors too.

I was very upset the trainer did not consider the other factors. We all were scratching our heads trying to link the difference between last barn and this barn, comparing work levels and feed, turnout time, etc. trainer just jumped to “she’s lame. sorry.” without even hearing what I had to say about it or discussing at all. very bone-shaking for me since I have worked extremely hard on this horse’s fitness and making up for some of her physical limitations which I am not shy to talk about.

[tbchick84]

How often do you get out of the ring with this horse? Weak stifles are very easy to build up just hacking and trail riding. You can ride around in circles all day on a flat surface and build no strength whatsoever.

[purplnurpl]

I think she looks fine but lazy as all get out.
You have to kick too much.
Get some spurs, Girly!

[BrokenArrow]

@purplnurpl

I think she looks fine but lazy as all get out.
You have to kick too much.
Get some spurs, Girly!

Wrong. Spurs won’t help. She’ll only learn to ignore them and while no offence to the OP, her lower leg is not stable enough to wear spurs. The horse needs to learn to go forward and stay forward without being prompted every 5 seconds.

While I wouldn’t say she’s lame, personally, I’m not thrilled with what the right hind is doing. In the walk, she pushes off it quite awkwardly. I wouldn’t have pointed at the stifles right away, I would have been more concerned about the hock. However I’m not a vet. But some horses do have loose stifles that need conditioning. I’d be incoprating some pole work into her fitness routine as well as some nice long hills if you have them. Even walking up and down a small incline can be hugely benefical for weak stifles.

Is she on a joint supplement? I’d be interested to see if even a basic Glucosomine/MSM mixture may help.

[thecolorcoal]

@tbchick84 - we are going out more than we ever have. I’m no trail rider. I am spookier than my horse outside the arena. But I am trying for her sake. We do a hilly trail once a day.

@BrokenArrow - Vet diagnosed this as loose stifles. She was given injections into both stifles but vet said that will not cure the issue, just help it make it easier for me to build some strength. She is on MSM, tri-amino, and an electrolyte.