Should I breed this mare for racing?

[Meadow36]

I’m in FL. I’m torn between breeding this mare for a potential racing foal (to sell as a weanling or yearling) or just try for a nice sport horse foal. Would a racing prospect be marketable from her? It would likely sell at OBS.

Queen La Turka http://www.equibase.com/profiles/Results.cfm?type=Horse&refno=8266163&registry=T

I do know that her dam and granddam are both black type, and her dam is a half sister to a canadian 2 y.o. champion from the 90’s named Cash Deposit. I’ve seen some of the other mares that people are breeding here in FL and I feel like she’s much better quality.

She is an A+ nick to Two Step Salsa. He is at $7500. I do my own breeding (I’m a vet) so those costs are minimal to me, but obviously I have to consider mare/foal living expenses, etc. until foal is able to be sold. Plus commission to the consignor, sales company, etc. So foal really needs to sell for $15K++ for me to get anywhere with it. Or I could find a different stallion.

Alternatively, I can breed her to a nice ISH (she’s a great jumper) and either sell the babe or event myself.

I’ve always wanted to get into breeding for the racing industry but I don’t want to make the wrong decisions! Any thoughts?

I have a Sky Mesa mare right now in foal to a first crop FL stallion named Anthony’s Cross; it was a complimentary breeding so I went for it. Goal for that one is to try and sell the yearling privately and send the mare back to Soldat (great nicking there) but if not I wouldn’t mind keeping that foal for myself - Anthony’s Cross is a fabulous sport horse type.

[halo]

Look at the results for the OBS yearling sale this past August. The market was pretty brutal for Florida stallions. I may or may not breed a mare next year, but if I do, Ill ship her to KY.

[Texarkana]

For what it’s worth, a fast two year old by Sharp Humor out of her half sister sold for $45K this spring. Same half sister had a $37K buy-back yearling by Trappe Shot at Keeneland in September.

I wouldn’t bank on recreating that, though! :lol:

Don’t pay a $7500 fee, though. That’s a good way to lose $7500.

[Simkie]

I thought I recognized the name–Cash Deposit stood at CSU in Colorado. I think I’ve seen a foal or two of his.

Looking at the stats, he got 116 foals and they won less than a million bucks, for an AEI of 0.26. So nothing at all impressive down that branch of the family tree.

Here’s the most recent catalog page for any foal out of your mare’s dam. This is from when your horse was RNA at OBS in 2009:

http://obssales.com/marcatalog/2009/264.PDF

If this is still where things sit, I’d be hesitant. La Turka has not produced black type. Your mare was competitive in the claiming ranks. Cash Deposit was a runner for sure, but he definitely hasn’t produced. I’d be concerned that you’re breeding a claimer. If there have been wins since that page, then perhaps I’m way off.

Your mare got $22k at OBS as a yearling and the same price again as a two year old in training, and she was RNA both times. Two Step Salsa certainly has some youngsters that have sold well this year, but I would look very carefully at the pages of those that have gotten the kind of price you want and compare with a critical eye to your mare.

[halo]

This is the page for the Sharp Humor that sold this past spring:

http://obssales.com/aprcatalog/2014/424.PDF

Substitute your mares name for the dam. Its not a bad page. She has one half sister who has produced a stakes horse. The Sharp Humor colt is named Mist and is working forwardly for a good outfit. I dont know, Im big on telling people not to breed their mares if they are wanting to make money, but this one could go either way.

[Meadow36]

Thanks for all that info. Yes Halo that’s exactly how I feel, I could go either way. But $7500 is higher then I really want to go. I suppose I could ask for an early bird discount or something, but he’s a pretty hot stallion so I doubt they will do me any favors on a maiden/claimer.

So - any other stallion thoughts? I love Kantharos but he’s Halo line also so the inbreeding is too close.

[Texarkana]

No thoughts, but definitely ask for a discount. Or try to secure a season to him at a lower price through other means. Two Step Salsa bred over 100 mares last season, so you may not have much wiggle room with him.

I only say to look for a lower fee because with it being her first foal, you have no idea what she will produce. You sound like you have a budget, like most of us do. With her catalog page, a nice, big, correct yearling could sell at or above the median for a Two Step Salsa (or any other sire) foal… but an average yearling might sell well below the median and leave you in the red. The market is SO fickle.

Halo has much more experience with this than I do, but it sounds like we’re all thinking similarly…

[ivy62]

How would she cross with Birdstone? I understand his fee is low and he has certainly produced some nice horses? I think unfortunately, he is in Ky… or maybe Invasor?

[Laurierace]

I like her as a breed to race type but not so much as a breed to sell.

[Toadie_s_mom]

What about a foal share? Do people do that anymore?

[Meany]

[QUOTE=ivy62;7859968]
How would she cross with Birdstone? I understand his fee is low and he has certainly produced some nice horses? I think unfortunately, he is in Ky… or maybe Invasor?[/QUOTE]

This seems like an interesting option. Shipping to KY has got to be less than $7500 and I’d think a Birdstone baby would be more marketable.

Also like Laurierace’s point that it looks like a mare you’re breeding to race, not necessarily to count on making money at the sales.

To that point I would add that it might be worth looking into your options for getting into the state bred programs no matter what you intend to do with the offspring… It’s not my area of expertise, but if your mare were standing in my backyard I’d be investigating what I needed to do to have a WV-bred foal. (And I refuse to be embarrassed about that! :o Purses are decent, company is soft, and you can go through your conditions twice at Charles Town!)

[Texarkana]

[QUOTE=Toadie’s mom;7860849]
What about a foal share? Do people do that anymore?[/QUOTE]

They do… I get offers to foal share on my one mare like crazy.

But from my research, deals vary greatly… and unless you really know the foal is going to sell high, it’s not always a good deal for the mare owner at some of these major farms. You basically have to foot all of the mare’s expenses and split the foal’s expenses. Those expenses can be quite high when you’re talking about day rates, sales prep, and vet care…

[halo]

if you’re interested in kantharos the Halo is not too close to double up on. I wouldn’t give it a second thought. there’s a few young stallions I would prefer over two step salsa; he’s a bit of a one hit wonder. there’s also some new stallions coming in.

[Texarkana]

Both Kantharos and Two Step Salsa have NG seasons available in the TCA auction this year… as well as quite a number of other FL sires. That route is a little more risky, but it may be a way to save some money on a fee and lower your bottom line you’d need to recoup on the foal.

[anon123456]

I would send her up to MD and breed her to Dance With Ravens…his 2015 fee is $3,000 and her dam’s 1/2 sister crossed well. You would benefit with a Florida bred with MD Million eligibility. I think that would open your market a bit for a sales foal.

[judybigredpony]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;7862883]
Both Kantharos and Two Step Salsa have NG seasons available in the TCA auction this year… as well as quite a number of other FL sires. That route is a little more risky, but it may be a way to save some money on a fee and lower your bottom line you’d need to recoup on the foal.[/QUOTE]

This is my same suggestion

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=anon123456;7863409]
I would send her up to MD and breed her to Dance With Ravens…his 2015 fee is $3,000 and her dam’s 1/2 sister crossed well. You would benefit with a Florida bred with MD Million eligibility. I think that would open your market a bit for a sales foal.[/QUOTE]

Have you looked at his auction results? She would be lucky to get her stud fee back plus shipping.

[CathyJennings]

If your mare is a big, sport horse type I wouldn’t be afraid to breed her. Being by Southern Image, and out of a Turkoman mare, I would suspect she is. Look at her with a critical eye, particularly her legs, and make sure she’s structurally correct. That being said, it is difficult to make money breeding to Florida stallions. Wildcat Heir is the only consistently commercial stallion in Florida. If you stay in the state, I would suggest a stallion standing his first year in 2015. Tapit and War Front are the two hot stallions right now, and a son of Tapit, named “He’s Had Enough” will be standing his first year at Woodford Thoroughbreds for $5000. He doesn’t have a great race record, but it’s not bad either. He was second to Shanghai Bobby in the 2012 Breeders Cup Juvenile. He beat some very nice horses that day. He placed in another Grade 2 stakes. He’s out of a wonderful mare that has produced three graded stakes horses, and he was bred by Helen Alexander Matz. I know I must sound like an infomercial for him, and I’ve never seen him. I’ve been breeding commercially for 7 or 8 years now, and timing is very important. That’s why so many buyers flock to foals by first year horses. The ones by the really proven horses are extremely high, so they go with stallions that haven’t had a chance to do anything wrong.

[Lord_Helpus]

She is sport horse broodmare all the way with her strong sport horse pedigree. The obvious names are good to see, but the (IMO) exciting sport horse name on her pedigree is Believe It.

When TB’s were the horse to have as show hunters, I looked for Believe It in the pedigree. Every horse I bought with Believe It on the bottom side was an incredible jumper.

PS: To clarify: Helen Alexander’s daughter, Deedee married Michael Matz. Not Helen.

[CathyJennings]

PS: To clarify: Helen Alexander’s daughter, Deedee married Michael Matz. Not Helen.

You’re correct. I was typing fast and made an error.

Believe It was a good broodmare sire as well. He was out of a daughter of Buckpasser, who I love. Good luck with your mare, whatever you decide.