Should I buy this horse?

[Penny3548]

I am in my last year of undergrad in Quebec, but I am from the states. I have been riding a 10 year old Thoroughbred/Clydesdale gelding who belongs to someone at my barn, and I am possibly looking to buy him. He has done dressage and light jumping in the past, but mostly just hacks around with his owner. Last summer he was training with his owner for a 3 day event but he kicks his stall when he is getting fed (at least he used to- he doesn’t much anymore), and he ended up pulling or damaging the suspensory ligament in his back left foot (I am unsure of all of the details- these are what his owner has told me). He was off for a couple of months (I believe for most of the fall) but in November he started being ridden- walked & trotted, and I helped his owner do this by riding him several times a week.

I have ridden him about 15 times now, and will continue to ride him and eventually lesson this semester. He is a very nice, sensible, gentle horse and I really like him- we have started cantering now and he is going sound, just getting back into shape, and I hope to take jumping lessons on him as soon as he is completely back to normal. His owner is interested in selling him to me, I am interesting in having a horse when I graduate, and this is a unique horse-buying opportunity in that I am essentially getting several months worth of riding him and getting to know him while helping his owner rehabilitate him.

Since going back to work, he hasn’t had any lameness or issues at all, which seems good, but I suppose I am wondering about his overall soundness down the road. I do not intend to jump much higher than 2.6 on him ever- I am more interested in just having a good, sound horse to enjoy. I think he is a good hunter prospect- he is a very solid, hunter-y type, and I am also interested in possibly doing some light eventing on him at the 2 ft-2.6 level.

I am patient and willing to take time in making this decision, and if I buy him, I do not mind spending time schooling him over jumps and going slowly to make sure he is sound and well, but of course, ultimately I want a sound and happy horse above all else. I have sought advice from friends, and before I buy him I would of course get a vet check etc. but since he is sound and well, I suppose I am wondering how put-off I should be by this recent injury, even though he seems to be recovered. Should I just intend to ride/lesson him over the next few months and see how he goes before making this decision, or are there any other particular things I should do or be aware of before taking this next step?

Sincerely- an amateur/intermediate rider who would love to buy her first horse but doesn’t know exactly how to do that. Any and all advice welcome.

[Lusoluv]

You absolutely need to get all vet records of the injury from the current owner, then find an excellent, independent vet (or equine hospital) to exam the horse thoroughly before making your final decision. Do NOT purchase this horse (no matter the $$, even if the horse were given to you FREE) without an in-depth orthopedic exam, X-rays, and ultrasound.

[Scribbler]

He sounds like a lovely horse in terms of personality.

If you want to buy him, you should get a very thorough Pre Purchase Exam from your own vet, and get the owners to release the full details of his injury to that vet.

My understanding is that damaged ligaments don’t really heal in the same way that a damaged muscle or damaged skin would heal. Re-injury can happen, too, or it can get worse.

I’d suggest that you also read up on horse anatomy a bit, and try to get an overview of the different places on the ligament the injury can happen, so that you are better able to follow the discussion with the vet.

I went to a lower leg dissection clinic last winter held by a local vet, and it was very very interesting to see how all the pieces worked. I’ve also been watching a barn friend trying to rehab a very nice horse with a serious suspensory injury. It’s been a year and she is probably never going to be riding sound again.

I haven’t dealt with this injury myself, on my own horse, but it does seem to be a potentially serious, long-term one

[RockinHorse]

I would see if the owner would give her vet permission to discuss his injury with you so you know what exactly it was and what the prognosis for full recovery is before getting your own vet check.

[Outyougo]

If you like the horse
If vet thinks he can do what you want
If you can pay the bills

Indeed treat yourself to a graduation gift.

[luvdogz72]

I think the main question here is

what is his cost?

do you trust the owner about this injury healing well?
Do get a vet check but depending on his price - wouldn’t spend a ton.

Bodies of all living creatures have great healing capacity. I adopted a kill-pen horse that had what looked like a nasty hoof wall laceration. The vet wrapped it well and told me to do the same for the next couple of weeks - every few days. Uh, NOT!!. I washed it a couple of times and then left it alone and it healed just fine.

I just would love to see a pic of a TB/Clydesdale cross - what fun!!

[Feliz]

I’m rehabbing my horse from a mild front suspensory strain right now so I’ve had a crash course in suspensory injuries.

What I think you need to learn to make an educated decision:

• Severity of injury – my understanding is that hinds are usually worse than fronts
• All vet records of initial diagnosis and treatment and expected recovery time, especially ultrasounds (get your vet to look at this before a vet check)
• How well was the rehab plan adhered to – this can make a HUGE difference to recovery. Was he on box rest for months and turned into a crazy idiot, or was he laid back so let it heal thoroughly? Was the owner very careful bringing him back into work and did exactly what the vet recommended?

In general ligament injuries take a long time to heal – it’s not unusual for it to be 1yr – 18mths before the horse returns to full work. At this point you just don’t know that he’ll be sound to jump.

He does sound lovely and if you really like him I would want to lease him for a decent time (at least a year) to ensure that he will stay sound for what you want to do. The owner will probably struggle to sell a horse with this type of injury so hopefully that would be mutually beneficial for both of you.

If you poke around coth and do a bit of googling you’ll read all sorts of stories about suspensory recoveries – from a severe injury that went back to jumping to a seemingly mild injury that was never sound again. Just today my farrier was telling me about his intermediate eventer who did a whole season with a torn front suspensory – was never lame, didn’t stop, only discovered the next spring when he started stopping at little jumps. Horse came back completely sound but wouldn’t jump over 1.05m after that – just didn’t want to play. A friend bought one with a recovered hind suspensory, horse immediately re-injured on purchase, she spent the first 9mths of ownership rehabbing from scratch again. He’s now back to jumping 80cm, they’re having a lot of fun and she loves him dearly.

In summary it’s a total cr*p shoot no matter what you do with horses!

[RugBug]

I would not buy a horse with a suspensory injury unless it has been sound in and the work I want it to do for multiple months. This horse does not sound like that. It should be regularly jumping 2’6" for about 6 months before I would even consider it

[Penny3548]

I don’t think the injury was that severe, but I need to speak more with the owner about that. I was one of the first to get on him after his months of rest and he was completely sound and well-behaved from day 1. He is not spooky- very sensible, and he seemed happy to be back to work, and very calm, if a little lazy. He has gotten more energy with the more work, and I believe that his owner followed the instructions of the vet to the letter in terms of easing him back into work- and I did exactly what the owner told me to do for him. I actually had a pony mare who had a suspensory injury in her front from jumping that went undiagnosed and misdiagnosed for almost a year because she was not lame, only a little off now and then, and once it was diagnosed she was on rest and then eased back into work and now is jumping again, albeit with kids and at a lower level. But with her the case is different because she was 16 when she got the injury and also developing arthritis which got in the way of our knowing what the problem was. She is now completely sound and still jumping, although slowing down due to her age. So I have one experience with the suspensory problem, but its sort of a completely different ball game from this one. But I definitely need to be consulting a vet beforehand, I agree.

[Penny3548]

I don’t think the original injury was that severe, but I need to speak more with the owner about that. I was one of the first to get on him after his months of rest and he was completely sound and well-behaved from day 1, although I know that just because he is sound now doesn’t mean he’s completely healed. He is not spooky, nor has he been crazy going back to work- very sensible, and he seemed happy to be back to work, and very calm, if a little lazy. He has gotten more energy with the more work, and I believe that his owner followed the instructions of the vet to the letter in terms of easing him back into work- and I did exactly what the owner told me to do for him- we just walked for weeks, and hand-walked, before proceeding to trotting for short periods- and we only recently started cantering.
I actually had a pony mare who had a suspensory injury in her front from jumping that went undiagnosed and misdiagnosed for almost a year because she was not lame, only a little off now and then, and once it was diagnosed she was on rest and then eased back into work and now has been jumping again for several years, albeit with kids and at a lower level. But with her the case is different because she was 16 when she got the injury and also developing arthritis which got in the way of our knowing what the problem was. She is now completely sound and still jumping, although slowing down due to her age. So I have one experience with the suspensory problem, but its sort of a completely different ball game from this one. But I definitely need to be consulting a vet beforehand, I agree.

[RugBug]

It’s a gamble. For every success story, there are stories of failure and even for mild injuries.

I’ve dealt with two minor suspensories:

1. Successfully rehabbed into a non-jumping home
2. Second had not successfully made it through re-hab and we did most of it right. I didn’t have a no-expense spared budget, so while he got shockwave and stem cell or PRP or some such…but he didn’t get every single thing available. It’s been almost 3 years (end of Feb) and I finally gave up last June and put him in pasture. We went through 3 full re-habs and everytime we got started to move up from 3 minute trots sets, he would go slightly off. He has decent conformation, so nothing really to blame there (first horse did, which is why no more jumping).

I’ve seen plenty of re-habs and you tend to get a few years, if you’re lucky and they re-injure. For me, it’s a road of heartache that I want to avoid at all costs.

Be aware of someone who is too willing to sell a re-habbing horse…they are making the risk someone else’s and the risks are high. I always ask if the horse is so nice, why are they selling it? They were training for eventing before the injury, why do they want to sell now? Because they don’t want the risk of the horse not staying sound?

Just my opinion which you can obviously disagree with…

[pacific_jumper]

As someone who has been unsuccessful in rehabbing a front suspensory injury to bring a horse back to jumping sound (shockwave and following all the vets orders), I would not suggest you buy this horse.
In most cases, ligaments do not heal to look good as new. Scar tissue and irregular growth will patch up the ligament but the area will always be more prone to reinjury.
Would a lease be a possibility? How much are you willing to spend on a prepurchase exam? I’d be careful that the owner isn’t trying to pawn this horse off on you

[lmlacross]

I bought a horse with a small ligament tear (distal sesamoidean, front). He’d been on the market as a hunter by his former owner, for whom I’d ridden him prior to his injury. (she was busy with her career and hoping to start a family, and I was a senior in college at the time who desperately wanted a horse of my own-- that part sounds not entirely dissimilar to your situation.) When he was injured (took a funny step at a horse show), his former owner sent him up to UW-Madison where he took part in a shockwave therapy study. He had been at a rehab barn there for several months on stall rest when his former owner contacted me, weary of the bill on a horse she couldn’t ride (or now, sell). The vet saw no reason why he shouldn’t eventually return to jumping soundness (and I had no designs beyond 3’6"). I looked at his ultrasounds with a local vet, conferred with the vets in charge of the trial at UW, and remembered the horse I’d been riding prior to his injury, whom I very much enjoyed).

I brought him home for the cost of his remaining shockwave treatments and board payments during his time in WI. Once he was with me, I undertook a lengthy period of stall rest and a painstakingly slow, careful return to work (hand walking, walking under tack, tiny trots-- for months and months). I owned him for four years, and, in those four years, he was never sound for long. Despite my best efforts, boundless patience, and wonderful vet and farrier support, ours was a road of constant, recurring disappointment, rehabilitation, Ace, and not a single horse show. He’d give me a handful of months of good, apparently sound progress, then we’d backslide to square one.

Thirteen years ago, I took a gamble that, based on every piece of clinical advice I’d received from people in a position to give it mingled with my own youthful optimism, seemed to lean in my favor. I took that gamble, and I lost. It was demoralizing, deeply disappointing, and very costly. I was fortunate to eventually find a wonderful family who were willing to keep him as a (very handsome) pasture pet. Unfortunately, I couldn’t keep him sound for anything more.

I can’t tell you what to do, but I can tell you that my experience was draining in every way a person can imagine. It made me very reluctant to own a horse again, and I spent nearly a decade away from the sport while the disappointment wore off. If someone had been in the position to advise me in 2002, I wish they would have said, “Don’t do this. Wait. There are no guarantees with horse soundness, so don’t stack the deck against yourself unnecessarily.”

To me, given where I’ve been, it’s just not worth the risk. There are too many horses that don’t have this question mark in their pasts; why not improve your chances by finding one of them?

[Madison]

[QUOTE=lmlacross;8504094]

To me, given where I’ve been, it’s just not worth the risk. There are too many horses that don’t have this question mark in their pasts; why not improve your chances by finding one of them?[/QUOTE]

I had a similar situation with a ligament injury, and my motto since then has been why start with one strike against you. And as a wise PPE vet said to me after finding a stifle issue in a mare I loved and really wanted, it’s one thing to address it if you already own the horse, but you don’t, and it is a gamble, so why take the risk?

OP, there are lots of horses out there, even on a budget. Can you afford to take the risk and care for him long term if the suspensory won’t hold up? Could you get another horse if that happens? Those would be important things to think about. Given that he’s not jumping around regularly, I would want to lease before I committed to owning him.

[RugBug]

BTW- a quick note on the first horse that I sold to a non-jumping home…he was sound for over a year doing that king of work. The new home was low level dressage and it’s been perfect for him. If his soundness was in question…as second horse’s is, I wouldn’t have sold him.

[snaffle1987]

I have one that lacerated the flexor tendon in the hind leg on ice while out in turnout for the day. Took a year of stall rest and hand walking and all of the necessary care. The mare made a full recovery and went on to a very successful career in hunters/eventing and never took a lame step in her career. She was of a hardier breed which I think helped a bit more as they seem to overcome the injuries better. get the vet records and hire a vet to do a thorough ppe and get an ultrasound on the concerning leg. Do not write off a potentially good horse because of an injury which might not inhibit doing lower level jumping.

[Penny3548]

[QUOTE=snaffle1987;8504399]
I have one that lacerated the flexor tendon in the hind leg on ice while out in turnout for the day. Took a year of stall rest and hand walking and all of the necessary care. The mare made a full recovery and went on to a very successful career in hunters/eventing and never took a lame step in her career. She was of a hardier breed which I think helped a bit more as they seem to overcome the injuries better. get the vet records and hire a vet to do a thorough ppe and get an ultrasound on the concerning leg. Do not write off a potentially good horse because of an injury which might not inhibit doing lower level jumping.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your post! A similar thing happened with my first pony mare who had a major suspensory ligament issue from jumping- she has completely healed and jumps around no problem now, although she’s slowing down due to age and arthritis.
That’s mostly my thing, is that comparatively speaking, I would be doing very low-level stuff with this horse. I don’t have great ambitions of making a huge showing career at this point- I just want to ride and jump around a bit on a nice, quiet horse. As much as I like this horse, I am not ruling out the possibility that I would not sell him after graduate school to a good home (as long as he is sound, of course) (although my history of horses would say that I am more likely to fall in love and be unable to ever sell him, even to a good home) if I feel the need to move up to a horse who is physically and mentally capable of doing more. But at this point, my expectations are pretty modest. But I would absolutely do all the vet stuff, including ultrasounds and PPE’s and getting records, after seeing how he does this spring.

[ace]

Aside from the injury - Are you planning to return to the US after graduation? Have you looked into what would be required for importing from Canada, and what it would cost you? Just something to think about.

[Penny3548]

[QUOTE=Madison;8504113]
I had a similar situation with a ligament injury, and my motto since then has been why start with one strike against you. And as a wise PPE vet said to me after finding a stifle issue in a mare I loved and really wanted, it’s one thing to address it if you already own the horse, but you don’t, and it is a gamble, so why take the risk?

OP, there are lots of horses out there, even on a budget. Can you afford to take the risk and care for him long term if the suspensory won’t hold up? Could you get another horse if that happens? Those would be important things to think about. Given that he’s not jumping around regularly, I would want to lease before I committed to owning him.[/QUOTE]

Right- that makes a lot of sense. That is where I’m struggling here. I’m basically leasing him now- riding him 3-4 times a week, sometimes more, and I believe his owner will continue to let me do that throughout the next couple of months, given the fact that he does not have time to exercise the horse himself, and he is looking to sell him to me. Of course, I am not obliged to buy him, nor am I leading the owner on in terms of that. But I have until June to make a decision, essentially, before I leave.

[Madison]

[QUOTE=ace**;8504977]
Aside from the injury - Are you planning to return to the US after graduation? Have you looked into what would be required for importing from Canada, and what it would cost you? Just something to think about.[/QUOTE]

Importing from Canada to the US is easy and cheap, not a lot of cost beyond the shipping, and no quarantine. It’s very different than bringing one over from Europe.