Should I have kept my mouth shut about a woman's relatively new puppy?

[Joanne]

I was in Walmart this afternoon and saw a beautiful, so friendly, 8-month-old Cavalier King Charles spaniel. Her owner was most happy to tell me about her. In the past, I REALLY wanted one, having met a few, but learned about their health issues. I casually asked the woman if the breeder told her about possible heart problems in the breed. The breeder did not. So, I asked her to do a bit of research online just so she knows what could happen. She said she would and didn’t seem upset.

Now home, I am thinking maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut and let her discover any problem on her own. I feel gulity that maybe I put a damper on her joy with the new puppy, Roxanne, Roxie for short.

I still would really like one, though.

Roxanne in on this page and the woman didn’t pay that price.

https://www.greenfieldpuppies.com/dog-breeders/elizabeth-king/

[OverandOnward]

You did fine, while taking it for granted that you used a polite and caring tone.

You may have done her a favor as she can start managing and mitigating potential conditions before they seriously take hold. Perhaps a better and longer life for the dogs, and that will add to her life as well. Rather than waiting until something happens.

Plus, no doubt someone was going to bring it up to her at some point, regardless. Maybe you were the nicer option.

A cousin has two CKC’s and they are the softest, cutest, most adorable little dogs. I love them.

[Joanne]

Yes, I was gushing over the puppy. I don’t think I came across as a know-it-all.

Edited: I hope I didn’t come across as a know-it-all. What I think doesn’t really matter, only what the woman perceived. She was very excited about the puppy and I was excited for her, too.

[OverandOnward]

@Joanne

She was very excited about the puppy and I was excited for her, too.

I am sure that came through, the shared joy over this delightful puppy.

If I needed to know some things about my new puppy, I would certainly like to hear them from someone who is as positive and supportive as you.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

I’d be more concerned about Syringomyelia and Chiari-Like Malformations in CKC, with breeders breeding for sloped heads. Having seen a CKC having an episode due to its brain literally being squeezed by its skull… I would definitely be doing due diligence when purchasing one. Poor Cavs have become like the pugs: Buyer Beware.

I think you did the right thing.

[AllTheCarrots]

That website’s location in Paradise, PA (20 mins from Blue Ball, with a brief detour through Intercourse, and no, I am not making up those names) and the listing of multiple breeds from multiple breeders tells me that this is a front for the Amish puppy mills.

If the dog’s new owner didn’t think to do her research about that industry, chances are very good she didn’t dive deeply into health issues and related certifications either.

I hope her dog works out. And/or that she has a good vet.

[Joanne]

Yes, I have seen that discussed before (not here) that Greenfield Puppies is a front for the Amish.

Just the price of those CKC puppies is a big flag.

[TatteredDaydreamer]

100% Greenfield is a front for puppy mills. I hope the woman has a great vet.

[Rackonteur]

I think you did fine and did that woman and her puppy a favor.

I once met a couple (in mutual friends’ home" who had a lovely red-and-white Cavvy. I was petting him and complimenting him and then I asked his people if he was a Blenheim. They looked confused and said “No, he’s a Cavalier.”

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

I think you did fine. I’d want to know if there were major medical issues with the breed of puppy I’d just purchased. Forewarned is forearmed and all that.

FWIW, a friend loves Maine Coons. Only breed of cat she’ll own. What she didn’t realize was that there are apparently some lines that have heart defects, which they didn’t know. They got a new kitten, raised her until she was about a year old. One day, in the back yard, Dani leapt up for a butterfly, and crashed to the ground. Her heart literally stopped in midair. Even though they rushed her to the emergency clinic and did CPR the entire way, she was already gone when she hit the ground. Now they know which lines to avoid, and their other cat was sent through a battery of tests to make sure HE didn’t have the same issue. My friend loved that cat, but she wishes she’d known beforehand - she might not have put herself through that.

[S1969]

Just reading this…
These posts make me sad. Why are people so stupid?

I try really hard never to lecture people about their pets, especially after they’ve bought them. Hopefully they will be lucky and not have issues. But it’s hard.

An acquaintance took littermates from a doodly breeder (small, no idea what mix they are), and gushed over them on social media all the time. One of them needed a double FHO at 9 months. Ugh. By then it’s too late to lecture…they need to cough up the money and get the surgery.

Hopefully their vets are helpful about “how to avoid in the future” but I doubt it. I’m sure they are as leery as I am about condoning breeds, breeders or “doodles” because it will likely offend them.

[OverandOnward]

We were just having this discussion in another thread … but I feel as if I have to point it out when it comes up … I am all for responsible breeding. The problem is that the responsible breeders do not begin to produce enough puppies for everyone who would like to have a pet dog. I’m not sure how many breed for the pet market, at all.

All of the opinionating and criticism of what people “should” do and don’t do, re their dogs, is fine, and probably largely true. But it doesn’t fill the hole in the market. The mills and less responsible breeders are stepping into it as a business opportunity, not as a dog welfare operation.

I don’t know what the answer is. I don’t know how to get responsibly-bred dogs, pure or mixed, in quantities sufficient to replace the mess that we have now. I do know that the hand-wringing is not solving the ‘dog problem’ in the U.S., of irresponsible breeding in huge quantity for the general public who does not have access to anything else.

We need a huge culture change at both ends, by the gp as to what they really want in a dog and how to best care for and train a dog, and at the producer end to replace the mills and byb’s with much better sources of pups and pets. And I do not have an answer to that. But if since the 1970’s this country managed to cut back radically on smoking and get the public to accept some other habit changes, maybe there is a way.

[S1969]

@OverandOnward

We were just having this discussion in another thread … but I feel as if I have to point it out when it comes up … I am all for responsible breeding. The problem is that the responsible breeders do not begin to produce enough puppies for everyone who would like to have a pet dog. I’m not sure how many breed for the pet market, at all.

I do think this is true to an extent, but I honestly don’t know many people who have actually tried to get a puppy from a breeder and couldn’t. Yes, there are often wait times, and yes there may be contracts, and sometimes there may be other restrictions.

I know a lot of breeders; a co-worker asked me about getting a puppy of my breed and in 20 minutes I had leads on two upcoming litters, 2 puppies 8-10 weeks old, and 2 older dogs. Of course I know that is because I am “connected” in my breed - and my breed is not rare, nor does it produce tiny litters. But they were all willing to sell these puppies/dogs to a pet home.

I think there are a lot of great breeders who often have litters large enough for pet buyers. But not for the pet buyers who want one within 2 weeks, within 1 hour (max) of their home, only female, only a certain color, and don’t want to agree to things like no early spay/neuter or to sign a contract saying they will return it to the breeder rather than rehome it. Oh, and under $800.

If that’s what someone wants - they will have to be very lucky to find a good breeder who can/will deliver that.

[GoodTimes]

I’ll add that the cheapest part of getting a dog or a horse, etc is often the purchase price. It really bothers me that people end up with these poorly bred dogs because the owners are cheap, then when there’s something wrong with the dog they complain that the veterinarian’s are ripping them off.

In a perfect world only health tested and proven stock would be bred. But I would be content with health tested and good personality. At least stack the deck in favour of those puppies.

[Texarkana]

Last year a student of mine got a new puppy and I asked where she got her. She also bought her from a puppy mill off the Greenfield puppies site.

I kept my mouth shut. Not saying that was the right thing to do, but I also didn’t see the good (in that moment) in pointing out the fact she was supporting craptastic breeders.

Total tangent, but I recently took some formerly stray kitttens to TSC for low cost vaccines. It was kind of disheartening to see how long the line was with “purebred” dogs and puppies that undoubtedly cost their humans hundreds or thousands of dollars. I mean, I’m not judging- I’m happy they are taking care of their pets. It’s just ironic that people will spend that much on a puppy but scrimp on vet care. Sad state of affairs.

[S1969]

@Texarkana

It was kind of disheartening to see how long the line was with “purebred” dogs and puppies that undoubtedly cost their humans hundreds or thousands of dollars. I mean, I’m not judging- I’m happy they are taking care of their pets. It’s just ironic that people will spend that much on a puppy but scrimp on vet care. Sad state of affairs.

Actually - I was at TSC buying things last week and heard people talking about the impossibly long wait to get into a vet for vaccines, and some cannot get in at all. Especially new dogs/new clients – can get absolutely no vet care. It’s actually quite terrifying that the vet shortage is that noticeable - I have heard before that there will be a shortage of vets, but since COVID it seems that the increase in pet ownership has aligned with the decrease in vet availability and the backlogs are apparent already.

[cutter99]

I have a friend with Maine coons who experienced the exact same thing! None of the breeders she bought from ever mentioned a potential issue.

[Texarkana]

@S1969

@Texarkana

It was kind of disheartening to see how long the line was with “purebred” dogs and puppies that undoubtedly cost their humans hundreds or thousands of dollars. I mean, I’m not judging- I’m happy they are taking care of their pets. It’s just ironic that people will spend that much on a puppy but scrimp on vet care. Sad state of affairs.

Actually - I was at TSC buying things last week and heard people talking about the impossibly long wait to get into a vet for vaccines, and some cannot get in at all. Especially new dogs/new clients – can get absolutely no vet care. It’s actually quite terrifying that the vet shortage is that noticeable - I have heard before that there will be a shortage of vets, but since COVID it seems that the increase in pet ownership has aligned with the decrease in vet availability and the backlogs are apparent already.

I mean, that’s true too. That’s quite honestly why I was there. I wanted the kittens seen ASAP.

But the fact remains that people are willing to support puppy mills and bad breeders buying overpriced, unhealthy “purebred” dogs then balk at the price of veterinary care.

[Angela_Freda]

@GoodTimes

I’ll add that the cheapest part of getting a dog or a horse, etc is often the purchase price. It really bothers me that people end up with these poorly bred dogs because the owners are cheap, then when there’s something wrong with the dog they complain that the veterinarian’s are ripping them off.

On access to a vet, I’ve been with the practice I’m with since 1997.
Any new pets, including sons gf esa are accommodated because I’ve built that relationship.
People don’t understand that relationship: that routine care facilitates continued care, even of future pets.

[S1969]

But that pattern doesn’t really allow for the growth of pet ownership that took place during COVID, nor the decline of vet practices in general.

It’s great for those who are already IN. God forbid someone wants to switch vets though - good luck.